[thegrimmest]

Having the ideology of the majority taught in schools is the outcome of a strictly democratic process like the one you’re describing. I’m suggesting that the separation between church and state be extended to any ideological teaching.

[hn_acc1]

Maybe when churches start obeying the "no pushing any political candidate" laws and stop pushing things like "all scientists are evil", it would be a more acceptable position for those outside the church? Seriously - I've seen (not joking) statements like: all scientists know god exists, but deny it because they don't want to follow the laws of the bible. This was before I deconverted.

[iancmceachern]

I get it, I'm not trying to chat about that.

I am saying if you can convince enough other people that this makes sense you can effect change. And im wishing you good luck with that.

[thegrimmest]

> No, education is not brainwashing.

I’m directly responding to your point. Ideological education is brainwashing. In fact “brainwashing” is usually just another way of saying “an ideological education I disagree with”, also known as “indoctrination”.

[iancmceachern]

What is ideological education and why do you think it is all of education?

I'm saying flowers smell good.

You are saying flowers smell bad because of that one flower that smells bad.

[thegrimmest]

Any conclusion that cannot be arrived at cannot be arrived at by a scientific process is inherently ideological. You’re saying flowers smell good. I say they smell bad. Neither of us is any more right than the other, since these are entirely subjective takes. The closest you could get is that flowers might smell good to x% of the population, which is what schools should teach. Not that they smell good or bad.

The distinction is small but important, since the latter conclusion doesn’t make any judgements about people with a legitimate minority opinion.

[iancmceachern]

What about art,Mozart, the Dead shakespeare, south park and everything in-between? Those aren't science, but are some of the most vital components of education.

[thegrimmest]

Education describing what cultural artifacts exist and how to produce them isn’t ideology. These are objective areas of study. Though lots of cultural education is ethnocentric, where minority cultures are less represented, making the education less well rounded.