[mpweiher]

1. The Palestinians are not being "punished". That would actually be illegal and is not what Israel is doing. Israel is trying to destroy the party that attacked them, which is a legitimate war aim.

2. Being the civilian population of a dictatorship waging a brutal war of annihilation against its neighbors sucks, but is not the fault of the party being attacked and defending itself from said brutal attack.

3. Particularly if that dictatorship very explicitly uses the civilian population as human shields (an actual war crime) and does everything to maximize civilian casualties. Again, this is horrible, but not on the party that was attacked by said dictatorship, but rather on the dictatorship

4. Unlike, say, Nazi Germany, the last election produced a very solid majority for the party that is now running the dictatorship. And polls as well as public display, as much as those can be trusted, show a significant if not overwhelming majority in support of the war of annihilation waged against Israel.

[disgruntledphd2]

So you're telling me that Israel have not been stopping aid from getting into Gaza for three weeks now?

That is definitely a war crime.

And basically Hamas are fighting a guerrilla war and engaging in acts of terror similar to what the Zionists engaged in pre 48. If that was ok, then surely what Hamas are doing is fine?

I'm really confused about your notion that the Israeli state is being attacked. It's more accurate to say that both sides are being attacked, and only one side is engaging in plans to displace one side.

The last election was in 2007, half the Gaza population wasn't even born then.

By your logic the carbrt bombing of Dresden and nuking Japan were fine, is that a fair summation of your position?

[mpweiher]

Yeah, it's not a war crime.

Israel is not required to supply its enemy.

If the enemy takes control of humanitarian aid shipments, which Hamas has done consistently from the start, the requirement to supply aid no longer applies.

So Israel has been over-fulfilling its requirements. And when it stops over-fulfilling people start accusing it of war crimes.

You know what's a war crime?

- Using your own civilian population as human shields

- Commandeering humanitarian aid

- Unprovoked attacks targeting civilians

- Using hospitals and schools to launch attacks (including rocket attacks)

Nothing about war is "OK", and neither is your attempt at framing. War is horrible.

Pro-Tip: don't start wars.

Free bonus pro-tip: don't start wars and then cry victim when you start losing.

However, neither Dresden nor the nuclear attacks were "genocide". Look it up.

And last I checked, the consensus is that they were not war crimes, although a vocal minority claims otherwise.

[mpweiher]

Your history is also a bit off:

in 1948, when partition of the last remaining sliver of the mandate regions was announced, with the vast bulk already having gone to the Arabs, the Jews weren't happy, but immediately accepted. Because their goal was to have a Jewish state.

All the Arabs had to do to gain a Palestinian state (in addition to Syria and Jordan, the other mandate regions) was to also accept.

Peace.

Instead, the Arabs immediately attacked from all sides in a war of annihilation against the newly formed Jewish state. And despite the overwhelming odds the Arabs lost that genocidal war of aggression. And rebranded their own war of annihilation as the "nakba" supposedly perpetrated against them. "Woe is me".

Because the Arab goal never was "a Palestinian state". The Arab goal was always "no Jewish state". And of course for the rest of the Arabs the Palestinians are just the useful idiots who do their bidding and suffer the consequences.

But this is slowly coming to an end. Egypt recognized Israel a long time ago. So did Jordan. A bunch of the emirates also did recently (the Abraham accords). The new Syrian government has indicated that they will also recognize Israel. Saudi Arabia was also close to recognition and economic cooporation when their regional rival Iran used their proxies Hamas and Hizbollah to throw a violent spanner into the gears of peaceful diplomacy.

Because a Saudi/Israeli alliance is as much a nightmare-scenario for the Mullahs as it is a dream for the region.

This was a last ditch attempt that ultimately failed: Saudi Arabia has indicated that their plans are only delayed, Iran's proxies Hamas and Hizbollah have been all but destroyed, their ally Syria (land-route to their proxies) has fallen and wants to recognize Israel and their non-proxy attacks on Israel backfired so massively that it was embarrassing to watch from the outside.

After the direct Iranian attacks, Israel demonstrated that they have complete and total air superiority over Iran, took out their main air-defense just as a demonstration and then left. So Iran is in no position to do anything.

Without their backers, Hamas will not be able to resume their usual terror regime.

It won't happen overnight, but there is hope that the nightmare situation in the Middle East is slowly drawing to a close.

[disgruntledphd2]

And all it will take is the death of children from starvation.

Given that you believe that blockading an entire country is a legitimate act of war I'm not sure there's much basis for a productive conversation.

I would note that terror/liberation movements like Hamas have basically never been defeated with these tactics so I really think that Israel are digging their own grave here.