[yogurt-male]

I think the reason the left trashes this segment of the country is for two reasons. First, I don't think they're fully aware of how different the circumstances are for a middle-class (sub)urban person and a poor rural one. I doubt many "coastal elites" have spent much time in rural Alabama, for example. Second, they're able to extend empathy to the ignorant poor in other countries because they don't have to suffer the consequences of their ignorance and cultural backwardness. They absolutely do in this country, though. Just look what's going on.

In a very real sense I think the "left" (that is, Democrats) in the US see conservative, rural ignorance and prejudice as inexcusable. I don't think that view is fully unjustified either. Having spent time in Mississippi growing up, I will never forget how blatantly racist and hateful those people were. Even (especially?) the wealthy, educated "elites" there. And even with a poor school system, we have libraries, the internet, etc. Ignorance in the 21st century is absolutely a choice, excepting maybe people in the most brutal of circumstances.

[throwanem]

Spoken like a rich white liberal. I grew up in Mississippi white and poor, and I had friends (when we could get away with that) who were black and poor.

If you haven't noticed the way those latter are kept apart - quite literally the oldest play in America - then you haven't been nearly as attentive as you imagine yourself to be. The ignorant contempt you display here confirms it. Well, as you correctly note, ignorance in some cases is a choice. Choose better.

[yogurt-male]

Sure, there are good people there. But the people at the highest rungs of society there (doctors, lawyers, etc.) did perpetuate 1950s-level racism. Our family was told in no uncertain terms that they would not stand for us selling our house to a black family for example. I heard white kids saying slurs constantly, and not in a "rapping along to a song" kind of way.

Denying my personal experience and calling it ignorance is pretty fucking arrogant of you.

[throwanem]

Oh, please. I denied nothing. If you object to my characterization of that experience, do so overtly. But I knew at least a dozen like you. You were friends with the young rich asshole kids of the old rich asshole antebellum planter families, because they were your family's social peers even if you yourself didn't respect them - your family owned real estate worth redlining! - and now you think you're being magnanimous and openminded by generalizing from there to the poor whites who picked on you and beat you up and the black kids you were ashamed you were afraid of.

[yogurt-male]

Okay, let me be more clear. The contempt I display is not "ignorant contempt". It's rooted in years of experience. How could my comments possibly be interpreted as me thinking I'm being magnanimous? I very clearly expressed my sympathy with the liberal attitude toward the people in these states.

You're making quite a lot of assumptions about my experience, none of which is really correct. I wasn't openly hostile to these "antebellum plantation families", but I avoided them as much as possible. Most of my friends were from other liberal-leaning families.

Many of the people I spent time with were poor whites. I wasn't ever beat up by a poor white kid, and I wasn't afraid of any black kids. If I consider the political leanings of the white kids I knew, I didn't notice much difference in prejudice based on social class. So again, denying my experience just because you're mad (I assume?) that your segment of society is being painted with a certain brush. And imagining all sorts of things about my life to dismiss my attitude to boot.

Is what I wrote earlier unfair to you? Yes, probably (so are your replies to me). But I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about what I experienced, and that crosses boundaries of social class, despite your implication that it doesn't.

[throwanem]

'My segment of society.' "Spoken like a rich white liberal." If we had the language to discuss class in this country, you would not find that such a mystifying statement, nor one that would cause you the shame that it does. You have no incentive to understand it, alas, because you are a member of the class which benefits from the lack. Thank goodness that's not my problem.

Prior experience over many iterations of this conversation strongly suggests your next play will be to accuse me of being (in some combination) fascist, racist, a Trump voter, homophobic, morbidly obese, or whatever other such libels occur to you. To my considerable surprise, predicting such deviations aloud lately seems not much to reduce the odds of their occurring. Let's see what happens this time!

[yogurt-male]

Unfortunately for you, that is not my MO (and if you re-read the conversation you'll see it's you who has been defensive, feeling shame, and imagining/projecting things onto me the entire time). I've (mostly) addressed what you've written, not who I assume you are or what your attitudes are.

Also, I feel no shame for being called a "rich white liberal," which really shows how little you understand my psychology (or me, period).

All this vitriol even after I singled out rich southerners in my OP. Something isn't adding up here, but unlike you, I'm not going to assume what it is. Have a good one.

[DangitBobby]

Care to address the slurs and redlining?

[throwanem]

Have I been less than clear? Those are core examples of exactly the trashy behavior I expect from the Mississippi social class and scene of which my other interlocutor and their family were part, during their time in my home state.

(My hometown, actually, I bet. Oxford, right? Biggest net exporter of nonmalodorous feces in the state, bar none. The university draws 'em like flies on...well, never mind. Bet you never put a finger in a bullet hole on the Lyceum's frontage, the way I did.)

Where my other interlocutor and I really differ is that they expect to get a pass for having been "one of the good ones," and I issue no such passes. It isn't that I consider anyone who grew up that rich beneath my consideration, only that I'm less inclined to be patient and gentle with those who can afford about as much such treatment as they like and yet still expect it free of charge from me.

[DangitBobby]

I'm just not understanding your entire position, I guess. They are saying the overt racism is inexcusable and hating that ignorance makes sense to them. You are saying they grew up rich and so ... what exactly? They were also subtly racist? Or that if they were impoverished they would have been just as racist?