[jaxtracks]

One theme that pops out to me here is the reliance on other people being a positive experience for the author. In the software field, we tend to live pretty high up the economic value chain, which can abstract us a bit from participation in the more grassroots co-operative aspect of society. This can be alienating and warp worldview.

When I'm hitchhiking to support packrafting trips or get back to where I launched my paraglider, I have no say in who I'm going to be chatting with and feeling gratitude towards. Initially that feeling of being reliant on whoever comes my way was difficult to adjust to after the false sense of individualism that a high paying job in a bubble of similar people brings.

The benefit though is enormous. Now I stop to help anyone who's broken down on the side of the road despite the flash judgements their car or bumper stickers might bring. I'm much more aware of the value and interconnectedness of our society, and feel inspired to actively seek to contribute instead of remaining aloof. Most importantly, I realize that there's a whole lot of people out there looking to help people out at any turn, and that gives me a lot of faith.

[raffael_de]

I made similar experiences - some also through hitch hiking. One major takeaway for me was how often my "flash judgements" are wrong or unfair. I'd also say that asking for help and trusting is more of a strength one has to develop and nurture than a sign of weakness, which is what I used to believe.

[jajko]

That classic meme of guys never asking for driving direction, so women have to... but its not so much meme, just refusal to step out of comfort self-zone

[cynicalpeace]

I hitchhiked Mainland China in 2019, and it's true that you are constantly relying on the kindness of other people.

But I would argue that the type of person that does this kind of thing is very independent and thrives in an individualist environment.

After all- it's you that's inserting yourself into an environment of strangers.

When I was in China, people were bewildered as to why anyone would ever hitchhike. Whereas in America, a 5 year old knows what hitchhiking is.

[contingencies]

Err yeah, mostly based in China ~2001-2022 here. Basically in China hitchhiking makes you look like a criminal because there's perfectly good long distance transport for not much and the government bans people it doesn't like from using it. Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss. Sounds like a cool trip! Where'd you go to/from? Got a write-up somewhere? Highlights? I really enjoyed cycle touring in the west of China, there's some really beautiful areas.

[coldtea]

>Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss

Not if you're a westerner and look like an obvious tourist/trekker, etc

[schmookeeg]

Thank you for this. You gelled several ideas I was ruminating on over my morning tea -- my aloofness and my sneaking suspicion that self-sufficiency is isolating from society at large.

I still pull over to help motorists. You've inspired me to look for more opportunities like those. :)

[dangus]

I feel like this comment and the article itself together in context have kind of a sour taste for me.

Just the fact that it takes such a great effort to experience first-hand how poorer people just help each other out because nobody has money, so they help. But for a tech bro to do that they have to engage in a self-indulgent hobby and cosplay as poor like they're on Undercover Boss.

Ironically this effort to relate to other real live humans with normal incomes is only possible by indulging in the ultimate luxury, which is taking major time off of work rather than being stuck working a shit job.

This is all done with a straight face while jamming a sentence full of words like "paraglider" and "packrafting."

This whole subject is all so stereotypical tech bro in such an unappealing way.

Maybe this sounds unnecessarily bitter, but I think a valid alternate take on this is that privileged people are taking advantage of the kindness of others to get a bunch of help they don't need to help them achieve a goal that is a frivolous luxury. It's great we all get to feel warm fuzzy gratitude but it seems like the NPCs in this main character syndrome story are the people inconvenienced by the OP.

Example: asking the fire department for a place to sleep, they probably feel bad so they let OP sleep in the fire department. But as a tech startup founder and software engineer, OP could have almost certainly afforded a basic motel each night with minimal to zero planning and effort and not resorted to inconveniencing other people.

It feels a little bit like your CEO going to the food bank doesn't it? The median firefighter earns under $60k and dude who has probably outearns that salary in passive investment income is asking for a place to crash. I bet if the firefighter knew that they'd surely still be nice on the outside but they'd probably have a negative story to tell their spouse when they got home.

I completely understand that not booking a motel facilitated human connection and all that loveliness but I sense that the benefit is very one-sided. In Zuckerberg-esque style, the tech bro gets to cosplay as a human with real emotions, while on the "normie NPC" side they get to deal with a tech bro on a bicycle asking for weird shit while they're just trying to get through a shift.

[jaxtracks]

I agree that availing yourself of other people's charity for the sake of gaining a novel experience is gross if they have no way to decline or you're misrepresenting your circumstances. I think you've got a poorly adjusted take on the level of imposition happening in the situations described here though.

When I thumb a ride with a boat over my shoulder, nobody has to stop, and I'm sure nobody feels too bad for the dummy who might have to walk all afternoon because he decided to huck a river without a shuttle plan. When the author crashes at a fire-house, my hunch is the chief isn't worried that if he declines then the guy who's been camping for most of his trip anyway is going to freeze to death. Maybe he's just stoked to do someone a solid and chitchat with a traveler on a slow night. These are not 'CEO at a foodbank' type situations.

If I go on a mission to yoink a boater out of a gnarly river, I never hear anyone on my S&R crew worrying over whether the subject could have afforded a guided trip instead. We're just happy to help, and hope they learn from the experience. I think people legitimately enjoy helping eachother out more than you assume here, and are probably less concerned with economic status of the recipient than you.

> Ironically this effort to relate to other real live humans with normal incomes is only possible by indulging in the ultimate luxury, which is taking major time off of work rather than being stuck working a shit job.

So what do you advocate for here? Growing the increasing cultural isolation between economic classes because those lucky enough to afford time off work should be so concerned with potentially imposing that they shamefully avoid putting themselves in situations where they could benefit from the help of someone less well off?

Wealth inequality is a huge problem, and I'm excusing the level of salt in your comment because I agree with your general theme that exploitation of that dynamic is bad. But it feels like you're attacking a harmless treatment because you're upset the disease exists in the first place.

[dangus]

I don't think those who are helping OP feel imposed upon, but that doesn't mean that they aren't imposed upon.

I totally agree that people are happy to help regardless of circumstance. And I'm not trying to compare OP to Jeff Bezos or anything. But I think it still feels a little too much like cosplaying, metaphorically comparing camping in a tent to being similar to being homeless.

What do I advocate for? I would advocate for people who have the means to think about how they are impacting other people and trying not to artificially introducing situations where they need help from the less fortunate, and the situation where OP asked local first responders for help finding a place to stay was a great example of a problematic interaction.

[jaxtracks]

> I don't think those who are helping OP feel imposed upon, but that doesn't mean that they aren't imposed upon.

So I think what you're saying here that even if the request is not unwelcome, it may still be unfair? That's for the person offering their help to decide for themselves. I would be absolutely bewildered if someone on the internet decided I was being exploited because I stopped to help a rich guy change his tire.

> But I think it still feels a little too much like cosplaying, metaphorically comparing camping in a tent to being similar to being homeless.

I'm a pretty offline dude so I don't grasp the full context behind 'cosplaying' here, but if you're suggesting that anyone sleeping in a tent thinks they are going through the same struggle as a homeless person then that's a huge leap my friend. You can simultaneously appreciate your fortunate placement in the socioeconomic hierarchy, and participate in pursuits that will at least give you a bit of sympathy for how bad it can suck to sleep in the cold.

> What do I advocate for? I would advocate for people who have the means to think about how they are impacting other people and trying not to artificially introducing situations where they need help from the less fortunate, and the situation where OP asked local first responders for help finding a place to stay was a great example of a problematic interaction.

How is this problematic exactly? I've worked with lots of small town fire depts doing S&R and disaster relief and they are typically pretty broadly serving public servants, accustomed to fielding, and declining all sorts of odd requests. I don't think there's any risk at all asking a fire chief about places to stay is exploitation.

I totally understand why, at a shallow level, someone with money benefiting from the aid of someone without grosses you out, but my concern with your view here is that you're asking folks with means to tiptoe around society, being careful not to exploit to the point that interacting with their communities in very normal and fair ways is 'problematic'. The well off can do a lot of good in their communities, but this doesn't tend to happen if they feel isolated outside the circle of giving that other folks enjoy. Crested Butte Colorado is a great example of this, where lots of new moneyed people have moved into town, but are too timid to integrate. Instead of contributing, they add more rarely used bedrooms onto their mcmansions, and vote against affordable housing.

Rich kids flock to burning man in part because they are stoked give and receive in a communal model. I think if they realized real life is more like that then they think, they'd probably be more helpful to those around them.

[giantg2]

If you have to go out of your way to have a humble experience and then blog about it, then it's not authentic and you don't really know.

[_rpxpx]

Agreed. This sort of article does convey a lot about the mental world of the tech bro. Apart from the surprise at the hospitality of "normal people" it has the glassy sheen of purely procedural mind. I mean, one is not exactly swept away by the sense of adventure. It's a sort of fitness exercise.

[7402]

> Now I stop to help anyone who's broken down on the side of the road

I have a certain amount of fear about doing this sort of thing. I am ashamed of that, too.

When I was in college (this was in a small city), I was walking at night by the library and I saw someone trip and fall in front of me. I asked if they were hurt and if I could help. He hobbled up and said yes, one leg was injured, but he just needed some help to get back to his car. I helped walk him four or five blocks, supporting his shoulder. In a darker bit of street, his friend tackled me to the ground and threatened to kill me with his gun. He took my wallet, ordered me not to stir from where he pushed me under a car, and they ran off. To be explicit here, the tripping and falling was fake.

The campus police took me to the student health services; my knee was banged and slightly scraped from the tackle. I related the story to the doctor and he said, "Well, you can't stop helping people." On the other hand, the cop just said, if anything like that ever happens, I didn't have to handle it myself, just call them, they were happy to come and assist anyone who might need help on campus.

I still help others when I can, but I am always cautious about my environment and assessing the circumstances

[giantg2]

"we tend to live pretty high up the economic value chain, which can abstract us a bit from participation in the more grassroots co-operative aspect of society."

I really don't see this as being directly true. Most sorts of interactions where we would depend on others/strangers would happen outside of a job, just like all the examples you give. Maybe there's some truth to the stereotype that us IT guys are nerds and participate in fewer IRL group hobbies, which could make your statement indirectly true. However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc where people are from different backgrounds and regions. But then again, maybe I'm the odd one out as a middle class developer with everyone making more than me.

[jaxtracks]

Oh yeah that's a sweeping generalization of course. My point was that the heavy reliance on paid services that usually comes with a white-collar lifestyle reduces participation in community-based mutual aid and deepens cultural divides. I figure this probably gets worse with higher income since the more services you can afford, the less you may feel you need community.

Diverse hobby groups are also a great way of attacking these divides, but may lack the aspect of vulnerability that comes from experiences like the author's.

[coldtea]

>However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc

Both are luxury communities though. I mean, the example MMORPGs as a community, it has nothing to do with the community experience of poorer people "people helping each other to get by" mentioned