[ElevenLathe]

I think most voters probably assumed, as has been the case for the entire life of anyone alive today (including during Trump's first term!), that "Republican" meant "good for business" and small-c don't-rock-the-boat conservatism.

There were pre-tremors of this going back decades, but they always seemed far-fetched: surely the business interests in charge of both parties don't wanna fuck up the bag? It turns out that some of them do.

[krapp]

>I think most voters probably assumed, as has been the case for the entire life of anyone alive today (including during Trump's first term!), that "Republican" meant "good for business" and small-c don't-rock-the-boat conservatism.

Were they just not paying attention during Trump's first term? Did they just assume everyone shouting from the rooftops really did just have Trump Derangement Syndrome? Did Trump's conspiracy laden post-electoral twitter rampage or Jan. 6th really not clue anyone in?

I mean, the economy improved under Biden but I guess the meme about egg prices just kind of short circuited people's brains.

[ElevenLathe]

The sky didn't fall in during the first term, so why would it during the second?

I didn't vote for him but slightly less than half the voters did (according to best estimates -- one thing MAGA is right about is that our election security is a joke, with a few private voting machine companies and an army of partisan local officials having unauditable sway over a good chunk of elections). In any case, it's not productive to blame voters. The point of a democracy is to court voters. Shaming them and calling them idiots only pushes them away.

[SOLAR_FIELDS]

The point of democracy isn’t to court voters. You can make voting mandatory eg Australia

[ElevenLathe]

Surely it matters who specifically they vote for? To influence that, one needs to get them on one's side, which is not helped by calling them dumb.

[SOLAR_FIELDS]

In the case of the US, had voting been mandatory, victory of the voters courted would have been so ridiculously one sided that it would blow apart the idea that there are two actual opposing factions of equal desire of the will of the people. This has actually been acknowledged out loud by the current leader of the faction that is running the side that won.

[ndsipa_pomu]

I thought that Trump more or less did call his voters dumb on multiple occasions

[dragonwriter]

> I thought that Trump more or less did call his voters dumb on multiple occasions

I think he has, and I know he has very famously called them blindly loyal sheep (not in those words, the exact phrase was: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?").

[krapp]

>Shaming them and calling them idiots only pushes them away.

I'm not a representative of any political party, nor am I running for office. I'm just another woke libtard cuck who has to live with the consequences of Trumpist malice. So I'll shame them and call them idiots all I like.

[ElevenLathe]

Feel free! I'm just a lone left wing lunatic trying to make common cause with the libs, but it's tough. Hopefully we can at least get together on trying to defeat Trumpism but unfortunately your attitude also persists in the Democratic party apparatus itself.

[krapp]

The big reason the Democrats lost is that they tried to appeal to the right and only alienated their own base which was already disillusioned by Biden. They keep running as the status quo party when neither side wants the status quo.

These people put up a gallows and noose on the Capitol, but ours is the side which has to remain civil? You don't defeat fascism by capitulating to it.

[kelipso]

They tried to appeal to the right by appealing to neocons. But neocons are mostly anti-Trump and going to vote Democrat anyway. It was a weird and very disorganized campaign.

[ElevenLathe]

Both things are true, which is actually crazy: the 2024 party tried to outflank Trump on the right by doing bizarre stuff like parading around Liz Cheney and sending Bill Clinton to Dearborn. Now, when they should be formulating a positive view of why people should vote for them, they're trying to figure out why Trump voters are so dumb. They're not a serious political party anymore. The only route I see forward is the long road of organizing normal people in things like labor unions, tenant unions, leftist gun clubs, etc. Most of the infrastructure that the right builds with money can be replicated in 2025 with dedicated volunteers and little actual cash.

[archagon]

Because of how blatantly and repeatedly Project 2025 was telegraphed, for one? Trump surrounded himself with that manifesto’s authors.