[hatthew]

I do all my development work on linux. I have a self-hosted linux server. I used ubuntu as my main desktop computer OS for a full year, and in that time I struggled with compatibility issues, games that wouldn't run as well as people said they would, driver update issues, necessary tools that simply don't exist on linux, and various configuration failures that simply don't exist on windows. Saying that you can game on linux is like saying you can host a web server on windows. Sure, it's technically possible, and for some things it works smoothly. But 99% of resources on the web assume that you're on the normal OS, and as soon as you try to do anything even slightly outside of the basics, you're going to run into trouble.

[Propelloni]

I have to do all my corporate work on Windows. I have a self-hosted Windows server. I used Windows as my main work computer OS for three years, and in that time I struggled with compatibility issues, applications that wouldn't run as well as people said they would, driver update issues, necessary tools that simply don't exist on Windows, and various configuration failures that simply don't exist on Linux. Saying that you can work on Windows is like saying you can play games on Linux. Sure, it's technically possible, and for some things it works smoothly. But 99% of resources on the web assume that you're on the normal OS, and as soon as you try to do anything even slightly outside of the basics, you're going to run into trouble.

Granted, I'm using Linux for 25 years now, so I may be biased. Things that are easy on Linux are often incredibly hard on Windows, if they are possible at all. Things that used to be hard on Linux, e.g. installing, gaming, are now easy. Things that used to be easy on Windows, e.g. typing into the start menu search box, installing, are now hard.

[simoncion]

As someone who grew up with DOS, and later Windows 3.1 through 98, I can confidently say that Windows continues to become an ever-worse shitshow.

I'm so glad that I made Linux my daily-driver OS decades ago and (these days) only boot into Windows when I want to play games that have good HDR support. Valve has done so much good, effective work towards getting games (both major and minor) to work well on Linux. I hope whoever replaces Gabe N. and the other core management is at least as ethical, driven, and farsighted as the current folks running the show are.

[hatthew]

I'm not sure what your point is? Coding works well on linux, games work well on windows. Neither works as well on the other.

[Propelloni]

I think I'm lampooning the hyperbole. Both, Linux and Windows, have their own issues, and some shared issues, but none are making one or the other unusable or even hard to use. I, for one, am more comfortable with the issues Linux throws up than with those Windows throws up, which I often find vexing, but I guess that's habituation. It's important to realize your own biases, isn't it?

[hatthew]

Yeah, I agree that bias is an important factor here for general day-to-day usage issues. But even beyond subjective bias, there are things that are _literally impossible_ to do on an OS without manually porting some tool from its original OS to the new one. And generally, if a tool is only designed for one OS, it's windows for gaming-related tools and linux for coding-related tools.

[glenstein]

What you're describing sounds like the Linux gaming experience of 4-5 years ago. Steam and Proton have been complete game changers though, bringing the normal gaming experience with thousands (tens of thousands?) of games to Linux. It's not like it used to be.

[hatthew]

There are a lot of games that work well on linux. Maybe even most games! But there are also many games that do not work on linux. It's not fun to tell my friends "hey I'll be sitting this one out, let me know when we move on to another game"

[glenstein]

Again I have to stress how behind the times this take is. I recommend you check out the Steam Deck and the Proton project. It's something like 20,000 compatible games at this point.

If you're really missing something, then great, get a console to go with your Linux desktop or laptop setup. Still no need for Windows.

[hatthew]

Go look at https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked. In the first 50 games, there are 5 that I play that appear to be completely unplayable on linux at the moment. Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues?

Hypothetically if I were to switch back to linux as my main OS, I'd rather just dual boot windows than buy a console with an OS that is, in my opinion, even worse than windows.

[glenstein]

It's hilarious that the excuse for needing Windows is to pretend that in this context that you would be using the game console as your primary operating system. That's what Linux is for. If the problem with Linux is that 20,000 modern games being supported isn't enough because you still need to play Fall Guys, which is a hilariously boutique thing to hang the whole legitimacy of Windows on, then your problem is better solved with a console than with adding Windows. The operating system was already accounted for. Amazingly, your preferred solution is to have the worse operating system and fewer games.

>Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues?

You're copying the manner of my phrasing while turning it into a rhetorical question about a different topic, you're not being responsive to my point about it being behind the times to claim that Linux does not offer a thoroughly modern gaming experience.

I'm pretty sure that type of non sequitur response is exactly what the Onion was making fun of in its headline: "Hippie wants to tell you what the real crime is." The joke is the familiar feeling of hearing someone go off who clearly didn't pay attention to a word you said.

[hatthew]

sorry to have bothered you

[simoncion]

> ...driver update issues...

Are these nVidia drivers? If so, there's your problem. nVidia on Linux has always been a shitshow of varying degrees (and based on my investigation over the years, I've found that the majority of the problems people say they have with xorg are problems that go away when you use AMD or Intel hardware).

Anyway, Steam works great for me on Linux, and I don't use the various cheating tools that are popular in online FPS games, so E_NO_REPRO, WORKSFORME.

[hatthew]

In my experience, there were no linux drivers that work as well as the first-party drivers on windows

[simoncion]

If you're talking about out-of-tree drivers (which are generally ones that you download and install separately... the Nvidia closed-source driver is one such example), then I can believe that.

If you're talking about in-tree drivers (which will be the overwhelming majority of drivers running on the system [0]), well, pull the other one, kid.

[0] Unless you've done the thing some folks coming from Windows get confused and do, which is go searching for and installing drivers that you don't need, because they don't know that the good ones are already packed in.

[hatthew]

Last time I tried gaming on linux it explicitly made me choose between two options. One was the nvidia driver and one was not, and both had problems.

[simoncion]

So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver, whose closed-source version is known to generally be just absolutely godawful in every aspect other than "provides maximum performance, when you're able to get it installed and working", and whose opensource version is known to be an enormous crapshoot (on account of it being reverse-engineered with zero help from Nvidia).

That sounds about right.

[hatthew]

Yes. That's my point. They didn't work well, and caused issues when trying to game on linux, whereas windows was fine in that respect.

[WD-42]

I mean the steam deck is proof you can game on Linux. I hate to say it, but it sounds like you might just need to try harder.

[int_19h]

It depends a lot on what you play. E.g. multiplayer stuff that requires online anti-cheat rarely works well.