[paulcole]

> They want to get as much productivity out of you for as little pay as possible

It’s only adversarial because you want to get as much pay as possible out of them for as little productivity as possible.

> I somewhat agreed and got caught up in that culture until I got picked up in the fourth round of layoffs at a time when I felt I was doing my best work.

Did everyone feel that way?

[kortex]

> It’s only adversarial because you want to get as much pay as possible out of them for as little productivity as possible.

And the employer wants to pay the employee as little as possible for as much productivity as possible.

In a perfect world with perfect information and rational actors on a level playing field, this is great: we expect supply and demand to converge, this is econ 101.

But it's not a perfect playing field, one side is coercive, holds most/all the cards, calls all the shots, treats people with lives and experiences as "resources", and seeks profit over all other objective functions. This is class dynamics 101.

[paulcole]

> And the employer wants to pay the employee as little as possible for as much productivity as possible.

Yes, this is literally what I replied to in the first place.

Both sides want to get the most for the least.

It doesn’t matter how tilted the playing field is or is not, both sides have the same goal.

I never said that both sides have equal chances to get their goal.

[itsgrimetime]

> It’s only adversarial because you want to get as much pay as possible out of them for as little productivity as possible.

Or maybe pay that’s proportional to the value we provide

[paulcole]

It’s always proportional to the value you provide. You just don’t like the proportion lol.

What specific proportion do you think is fair? And how do you calculate the value you provide?

[ever1337]

The workers will decide and they will dictate it to you as you have done unto them.

[paulcole]

So as a worker, what specific proportion do you believe is fair to dictate?

[ever1337]

It's not at all a matter of fairness. It is a matter of might.

[saagarjha]

I mean, the same question can be asked of my employer.

[paulcole]

Yes, but right now I’m asking the person who said they wanted a proportional amount of value.

Either they can/will answer the question or they can’t/won’t.

[saagarjha]

Maybe they didn’t feel answering your question would give them a proportional amount of value.

[bradlys]

In a capitalist market, it is explicitly not proportional to the amount of value you provide. That is the underlaying principle of capitalism…

Read up a bit, man. Even a capitalist would agree with this.

[paulcole]

I can assure you it is.

You get paid X. You deliver Y value. The proportion is X / Y. Sometimes that proportion is very high, sometimes it is very low. Sometimes it is negative. Sometimes you get a divide by zero error.

And again, the questions.

What specific proportion do you think is fair? And how do you calculate the value you provide?

[fwip]

I don't think you understand what "proportional" means. It doesn't mean "there are two numbers."

It means that when looking at all employees, compensation is strongly linearly correlated to provided value.

[paulcole]

What specific linear correlation do you think is fair? And how do you calculate the value you provide?

[try_the_bass]

That's literally what "proportional" means.

[bradlys]

Jesus Christ. That’s not how it works!

Capitalism is explicitly not about that. Holy shit this is insane that you think that’s how capitalism works on a website that’s literally about venture capital. What the fuck.

[paulcole]

X and Y exist right? Why can’t you divide them to make a proportion?

[krainboltgreene]

Yes but they do that without doing any of the labour.