[OisinMoran]

Hard disagree with a lot said here. Watched both the film and this series (though haven't got around to finishing it yet) for the first time last year, and the series lacks a lot of what makes the film great.

The film has some interesting zen-like qualities like duality, and a more complex set of morals. The series just feels like most modern creations with a pretty bland right vs wrong.

The film is also almost entirely practical effects, which are incredible (the behind the scenes footage is amazing), while the series leans a bit too heavily on CGI in parts, which detracts from the action a bit (à la LoTR vs The Hobbit).

Given this piece I might go back to finish it now (and from another comment possibly upgrade my TV), but I still think I'll prefer the film.

[donatj]

If you have not seen "Princess Mononoke", I highly recommend it. I rewatched it recently and the people and creatures on both sides of the conflict are neither really good nor evil. Just two opposing forces with different goals.

It offers a level of subtlety I have not seen often in film, particularly since Star Wars.

[tmountain]

Very common in eastern storytelling. Ghibli films are some of my favorite for many reasons, but I particularly love how they contrast ideas.

[icu]

I think Studio Ghibli's 'secret sauce' is the "Kishōtenketsu" or four act structure that makes Studio Ghibli special:

1. Ki (Introduction) - Sets up characters and situation.

2. Shō (Development) - Expands the characters and fleshes them out.

3. Ten (Twist) - Introduces a new element or change.

4. Ketsu (Conclusion) - Shows the outcome and connections between elements.

In contrast Western films usually follow a three act structure:

1. Setup - Introduces the hero, often stepping into the unknown, and establishes the initial conflict and sets the stage for the story.

2. Confrontation - The hero faces mounting challenges and conflicts, often involving threats to innocent people or community. Stakes are raised and the story progresses to a conclusion.

3. Resolution - The story culminates in a climatic confrontation between the hero and the villain. Some sacrifice is usually paid, the hero triumphs, justice is served and order returns to the community.

I grew up on Disney and the three act structure, so when I experienced Studio Ghibli for the first time with Princess Mononoke it felt very different, fresh and more mature. While I don't necessarily love all of Studio Ghibli's catalogue, I do treasure Princess Mononoke, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Porco Rosso.

In the case of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, I highly recommend reading the manga over watching the Studio Ghibli anime.

[kouru225]

Miyazaki stated that he was trying to break everything he knows about story structure with Mononoke. Last time I saw it, it became clear to me that it’s almost impossible to fit into any story structure and it’s just one giant crescendo to the end. More like a minimalist music piece than anything.

[sleepybrett]

Mononoke and Spirited Away specifically feel like they have several 'extra' acts that make them seem longer than they are. Though looking back at both I'm not sure what I'd cut.

[the_af]

I wouldn't cut anything. They "just work", it's just that they don't follow a conventional structure. I don't want them to follow familiar patterns.

Yeah, you guessed it: two of my favorite animated movies!

[kouru225]

While you're at it why don't you tell me what parts you'd cut from Citizen Kane, Hamlet, and the Mona Lisa.

[chuckadams]

They look like the same steps to me, with steps 1 and 2 both being Setup. The dramatic arc is fairly universal, and Miyazaki is hardly an exotic unfamiliar with western culture.

[Hemospectrum]

GP's lists fall somewhat short of explaining the two most important differences:

1. Kishoutenketsu prefers to introduce the primary conflict as late as possible, whereas any writer in Hollywood will try to introduce it as early as possible.

2. Kishoutenketsu prefers to frame the primary conflict as a difference in perspective that must be bridged from both sides, rather than outright competition between irreconcilable goals.

These differences aren't fundamental (you can find all the counterexamples you like, especially if you cite movies with twist endings) but they are encouraged by style guides and deliberately (or even subconsciously) prioritized by writers, to varying effect.

[jancsika]

> whereas any writer in Hollywood will try to introduce it as early as possible

I like the Lynch version of this in Lost Highway:

1. Conflict: someone sent us a video of the outside of our house.

2. Rising Conflict: oh no, now they sent us a video of the inside of our house!

3. Conglitch: now they sent us a video of me murdering my wife?!? Didn't I just see her go in the bedroom?

4. Sogflatch: wait wut now I'm getting sentenced for murdering my wife?!?

5. Segfault: Hey Warden, the guy who murdered his wife disappeared and now there's a different guy in his cell!!!

6. Reboot: New guy adjusting to life after materializing in and getting released from the murderer's cell...

There's a similar game with conflict in Blue Velvet where "teen coming-of-age plot arc" becomes entangled with a separate "drug-addled adult plot arc." The latter ends up dominating to the point where the "teen drama" bullies get scared and drive off from what would have been the climax of their plot arc (never to be seen again!).

[OisinMoran]

Yes, I have—it's excellent! I'm a massive Mononoke fan (and Ghibli in general, though I've still got a few I haven't seen)

[thelaxiankey2]

Somehow a lot of TV seems far more subtle (or at least nuanced) to me than popular movies. The Wire or Scavengers Reign are a couple off the top of my head.

[jhbadger]

Yeah, the whole point of the original is that the Mystics and Skeksis were both flawed societies (even if the Skeksis were closer to the normal meaning of "evil") and the ending unites them rather than having the Skeksis destroyed.

[engineer_22]

The Netflix show is a prequel, setting up the story of how the gelfling were wiped out

[jhbadger]

Right, but it still takes place after the Mystics and Skeksis split off from each other. The Gelflings were really just irrelevant bystanders to the real story even if we the audience see the story from their perspective in both the movie and show.

[mock-possum]

Isn’t that the point, in some regards? The urSkeks were alien invaders who committed genocide and caused widespread environmental destruction - it’s their ambition that drives the plot forward, it’s their powet and their willingness to wield it - without that, nothing would have happened on this wholesome sleepy little planet, you know?

How do you, as a Gelfling, navigate your life, in the shadow of these incredible creatures? That’s what the story tells - you worship them as gods, you treat them cautiously as potential allies or enemies, you rise in rebellion to eject them from your world - and maybe in the end you find a new peace and balance.

I do think that mystic and skeksis perspectives are present, in little peeks and glimpses, but I would still welcome another excursion into Thra to find out more about what their lives are like.

[engineer_22]

i find the AoR to be subtle enough about what is right and wrong to be entertaining. good number of plot twists and hooks. a shame the garthim war wasn't covered... but maybe 20-30 years and they'll return to it