[icu]

I think Studio Ghibli's 'secret sauce' is the "Kishōtenketsu" or four act structure that makes Studio Ghibli special:

1. Ki (Introduction) - Sets up characters and situation.

2. Shō (Development) - Expands the characters and fleshes them out.

3. Ten (Twist) - Introduces a new element or change.

4. Ketsu (Conclusion) - Shows the outcome and connections between elements.

In contrast Western films usually follow a three act structure:

1. Setup - Introduces the hero, often stepping into the unknown, and establishes the initial conflict and sets the stage for the story.

2. Confrontation - The hero faces mounting challenges and conflicts, often involving threats to innocent people or community. Stakes are raised and the story progresses to a conclusion.

3. Resolution - The story culminates in a climatic confrontation between the hero and the villain. Some sacrifice is usually paid, the hero triumphs, justice is served and order returns to the community.

I grew up on Disney and the three act structure, so when I experienced Studio Ghibli for the first time with Princess Mononoke it felt very different, fresh and more mature. While I don't necessarily love all of Studio Ghibli's catalogue, I do treasure Princess Mononoke, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Porco Rosso.

In the case of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, I highly recommend reading the manga over watching the Studio Ghibli anime.

[kouru225]

Miyazaki stated that he was trying to break everything he knows about story structure with Mononoke. Last time I saw it, it became clear to me that it’s almost impossible to fit into any story structure and it’s just one giant crescendo to the end. More like a minimalist music piece than anything.

[sleepybrett]

Mononoke and Spirited Away specifically feel like they have several 'extra' acts that make them seem longer than they are. Though looking back at both I'm not sure what I'd cut.

[the_af]

I wouldn't cut anything. They "just work", it's just that they don't follow a conventional structure. I don't want them to follow familiar patterns.

Yeah, you guessed it: two of my favorite animated movies!

[kouru225]

Ngl the idea that the average commenter is thinking about how to make changes to Miyazaki's two best movies is so funny to me. It's like your average tourist walking up to Van Gogh's Starry Night and being like "I dunno I think I would do it differently."

[sleepybrett]

I have yet to run into anyone that hasn't let out a bit of a sigh when sen gets on that train.

I love the movie, I actually think Naussica is his best movie, followed by Princess. However as someone who grew up on western movies there is a rhythmic miss to these movies, a pacing that is unlike other movies. I never said it made the movies bad, just that it was, I guess strange... unexpected.

.. and like I said, looking at the movie, there is nothing there I would cut nothing that would bring it back to the expected western rhythm.

[the_af]

That's anecdotal at best.

I haven't watched the movie with anyone (and I don't mean anime fans -- which I'm not one, by the way) who was bored or frustrated by the train scene. A screenshot of that scene is often featured in articles about the movie, so at least reviewers seem to like it. I think it's one of the most hauntingly beautiful passages, too.

"The expected Western rythm" isn't something to be treasured at all costs, if at all. "A pacing that is different" is not the same as a "rythmic miss". It's just part of media literacy to be able to appreciate different rhythms. And come on, these aren't alien or bizarre movies, I've watched movies where the pacing really threw me off, and these barely register.

We do agree Mononoke is superb, so there's that!

[the_af]

Addendum: I've upvoted you because I don't think anyone should be downvoted just for expressing an opinion about art, as long as they do it politely.

Also,

> I actually think Naussica is his best movie

I don't agree but I love Nausicaa's visuals. They are also hauntingly beautiful. I owe it to myself to get the manga, too.

[kouru225]

While you're at it why don't you tell me what parts you'd cut from Citizen Kane, Hamlet, and the Mona Lisa.

[chuckadams]

They look like the same steps to me, with steps 1 and 2 both being Setup. The dramatic arc is fairly universal, and Miyazaki is hardly an exotic unfamiliar with western culture.

[Hemospectrum]

GP's lists fall somewhat short of explaining the two most important differences:

1. Kishoutenketsu prefers to introduce the primary conflict as late as possible, whereas any writer in Hollywood will try to introduce it as early as possible.

2. Kishoutenketsu prefers to frame the primary conflict as a difference in perspective that must be bridged from both sides, rather than outright competition between irreconcilable goals.

These differences aren't fundamental (you can find all the counterexamples you like, especially if you cite movies with twist endings) but they are encouraged by style guides and deliberately (or even subconsciously) prioritized by writers, to varying effect.

[jancsika]

> whereas any writer in Hollywood will try to introduce it as early as possible

I like the Lynch version of this in Lost Highway:

1. Conflict: someone sent us a video of the outside of our house.

2. Rising Conflict: oh no, now they sent us a video of the inside of our house!

3. Conglitch: now they sent us a video of me murdering my wife?!? Didn't I just see her go in the bedroom?

4. Sogflatch: wait wut now I'm getting sentenced for murdering my wife?!?

5. Segfault: Hey Warden, the guy who murdered his wife disappeared and now there's a different guy in his cell!!!

6. Reboot: New guy adjusting to life after materializing in and getting released from the murderer's cell...

There's a similar game with conflict in Blue Velvet where "teen coming-of-age plot arc" becomes entangled with a separate "drug-addled adult plot arc." The latter ends up dominating to the point where the "teen drama" bullies get scared and drive off from what would have been the climax of their plot arc (never to be seen again!).