[kzrdude]

We have to ask ourselves what we want. Because it's not GDP, you can't eat GDP or sleep under it, you can't even withdraw it from the bank. So more directly, how does it influence our life? (Of course GDP influences our life to some extent.)

[heresie-dabord]

It is generally understood that GDP is a poor measure of what matters to people. The OP should know this.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-...

[pc86]

It may be generally understood to you, but not to me, and the link you provided says absolutely nothing about GDP.

[forgetfreeman]

Not a problem, let's educate you a little. When graphed together GDP growth and real wages in the US show a disparity that clearly indicates that increases in GDP go somewhere other than working Americans. This being the case GDP metrics don't communicate meaningful information about quality of life.

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

[AlexandrB]

While increases in GDP don't all go to working class Americans, the two are not completely decoupled either. If you look at the small-scale variations in both they match each other pretty closely. I also suspect that it's the working class that would eat any dramatic GDP decrease.

[forgetfreeman]

We can at least agree that the working class would be on the receiving end of the worst of the consequences for any flavor of economic downsizing, just like they have been during every other recession, market crash, etc. to date. I would however like to suggest not letting yourself get distracted by the fact that the two lines kinda wiggle similarly. That massive and growing pie slice where the two decoupled is absolutely the larger issue.

[tguinot]

You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life (especially talented ones) and why almost no american does it the other way around. (The number is ridiculously low in comparison)

People move east to west across the pond, because they want the life offered by the US economy.

[hollerith]

>The number is ridiculously low in comparison

Where are you getting your confidence that that is so?

[tguinot]

Numbers of H1B applicants per country are available. The equivalent for the UK and France is also available.

If you believe there's nearly as many people trying to get out than there is trying to get in, you will be surprised.

The difference (per capita) is a factor of at least 10x

[sebazzz]

> You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life

I can guarantee you that number is now not growing so much.

[throwawayffffas]

I mean you can eat GDP and sleep under it. That's what it measures production.

[bognition]

Estimated GDP in 2024 28.9 T vs 2025 of 13.3 T

That’s a huge gain in 20 years. Where is the commensurate equivalent growth in housing, education, healthcare, cheap food, etc…

There is a huge disconnect between GDP increase and the economic pressure the majority of Americans feel.

[throwawayffffas]

The richest man in the world in 2008 was Warren Buffett with a net worth of 62 billion dollars. Now with 62 billion you are not even in the top 20. So the growth went into wealth inequality.

[pbhjpbhj]

You see the contradiction between this and your previous post?

Here you say we can't eat/shelter better with GDP increases because they aren't distributed; there you said that [spending on] ability to eat/shelter was what they measured.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

Looks like that should be 13 T 2005?

[bko]

Take pretty much any quality of life thing. Just as one example

Mississippi: The average home size 2,065 square feet

United Kingdom: The average home size is 818 square feet

No, you cannot "eat GDP", but its a useful proxy as it correlates very highly to a lot of things we do care about

[letier]

I wonder how it interacts with life expectancy.

There is a huge difference between Mississippi and the UK: 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females in the UK in 2020 to 2022. 68.6 years for males and 75.2 years for females in Mississippi in 2020 and 67.7 years for makes and 74.3 years for females in Mississippi in 2021. Might go up a bit if you have 2022 numbers, but the difference is huge.

[HideousKojima]

Life expectancy differences in Mississippi vs. the UK is largely due to race. Mississippi is about 36% black, and blacks in the US have a 5+ year shorter life expectancy than whites.

[pavel_lishin]

How do Black people fare in the UK?

Because if there's no discrepancy, or a smaller one, it seems to suggest that maybe GDP and square-footage-of-your-house is actually not all that important.

[dml2135]

And... why does that matter?

[HideousKojima]

Because the comment I was replying to was wondering if there was any relationship between the GDP per capita of each location and the life expectancy?

[dml2135]

To me your comment seems to be implying one of two things: 1) Black people are biologically hardwired to have a shorter life expectancy than white people 2) A shorter life expectancy among black people doesn't count -- it's only life expectancy among white people that matters

Could you clarify further if you meant one of these, or if you meant something else that I was not able to pick up on?

[ropejumper]

This requires a justification for why home size is a good indicator of quality of life, or for why it's more important than other indicators.

[bko]

I don't know anyone who doesn't want more space. And I couldn't imagine raising a family in 800 square feet.

Do we really need a "source" for everything? Would it be meaningful if you saw some survey asking: Would you prefer your primary residence to be smaller, larger or the same size?

I guess you can say all things being equal larger homes are more expensive so there must be some kind of preference for larger homes that indicates value

[jpalawaga]

Do those same people also care about quality of education, availability and utility of public transit, etc? Or is the size of your home the only factor in what makes somewhere livable?

[bko]

I don't think anyone really cares about "public transit". I think people care how convenient their life is. Why should I care if I take a bus to work or drive? I prefer whatever is best for me.

I would look at cost + time. For instance, if it costs me an extra $2k per year for a car but it saves me 30 minutes round trip, and my time is worth more than $20 an hour (assume work 200 days per year), then car is better. Add the convenience of not having to manage bus schedules and, you know, owning a car, its a no-brainer. I think there's some weird cultish behavior around "public transit" as though it is a good by itself is disconnected to how most people think about this.

So in this case not being able to afford a car or have anywhere to park it is not the win you think it is.

In terms of education, not sure its quantifiable but if you look at money, Mississippi spends considerably more:

In England, secondary school spending per pupil in 2024-25 is projected to be about £7,400 ($9.4k), while primary school spending per pupil is about £6,700 ($8.5k)

In Mississippi its around $12k

Do you have any other data or are you just going entirely off of vibes?

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/annual-report-education-spen...

https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/per-pupil-spending-by-sta...

[freejazz]

>I don't think anyone really cares about "public transit". I think people care how convenient their life is. Why should I care if I take a bus to work or drive? I prefer whatever is best for me.

Let me take a guess, you are an American, living in a city without good public transit.

[poincaredisk]

I explicitly care about "public transport". I strongly dislike cars, like trains and bike lanes, mostly commute by bus. I can't imagine living in a place without a good public transport. I strongly prefer cities and places without too many cars everywhere.

>Add the convenience of not having to manage bus schedules and, you know, owning a car, its a no-brainer.

I assume you live in a place where cars are the default, or the only, mode of transportation? It's not like this everywhere.

[AmVess]

Small homes just plain suck. No room to do anything, stuffy, cramped. GF and I moved, rented a house for a month. 1400 square feet. 700 up, 700 down. Tiny and cramped, and it only had one very small bathroom.

We had to sleep on different floors. Master bedroom was barely larger than the queen bed, and no way 2 people could sleep in there because it would get blazing hot in minutes.

Garage was similarly minuscule. GF had a tiny suv and still couldn't open both doors.

I figure 1000 square feet per adult is just about right.

[tjridesbikes]

What are you on about? My wife and I live in a total of 1000 square feet in a Boston triple-decker and get along totally fine. We have a basement for storage and a parking space for our car. Somehow, we're both able to work from home without getting in each other's way, have space to do our own things, and temperature regulation is a non-issue with mini-splits. We even have a shared yard!

Maybe the space wasn't laid out well. I would imagine, with only 700 sq ft per floor, a good portion of that is taken up by the stairs. My condo is a flat in a 100-year-old building, built before the "open concept" plans came into vogue. It means out rooms are separated and lets my wife and I do different things in different parts of the house.

People used to raise families in these old buildings with 1000 square feet. Their third-spaces weren't taken over by profit-seeking companies and their interests took them outside the home. 2000 square feet for 2 people seems utterly ridiculous!

[meindnoch]

Lol. 1400sqft is cramped in the US? I have a 120m2 house, which would be about 1300sqft, and we have two kids rooms, one master bedroom with its own wardrobe and a bathroom, one shared bathroom, and na american kitchen and living room.

What are you guys even doing? Or maybe the 1400sqft included the garage?

[Marsymars]

> Lol. 1400sqft is cramped in the US?

If they hadn't done the math I'd have suspected a typo.

I'm in a place not all that much larger (1800 sqft) and it feels pretty luxuriously large for just me and my partner. Big open kitchen, two living rooms, 2.5 bathrooms, three bedrooms (one used as an office for myself) and a dedicated office for my wife.

[footy]

sounds like a bad space distribution. I live in a 700 sqft apartment and my bedroom is large enough for a bed (where my girlfriend and I absolutely can both sleep) a small desk, a weight bench, a rowing machine, and some normal bedroom stuff (dressers etc)

[xandrius]

Population density

Mississipi: 24.5/km2

UK: 279/km2

Maybe, only maybe, that has an effect on house sizes?

[HideousKojima]

New Jersey population density: 488/km2

New Jersey median home square footage: 1,740

Doesn't look like it?

[xandrius]

Then if houses are larger and density is higher then one can conclude that the UK has more green spaces, non-developed areas whole NJ is fairly built up? Which also conversely has an impact on quality of living.