[stfp]

Do we believe that “people buy them and they like them” should be the end-all argument to judge everything? I think it’s a datapoint but it doesn’t mean that the thing is good for society or people themselves.

Like 40% of people used to smoke. 40% of people are obese today. I’m not comparing these things to teslas in terms of harm (though funding musk is societal harm) but they prove that consumers can make very very bad choices and IMO do all the time

The vocal minority acts as a valid canary, probably most of the time.

[greengreengrass]

Teslas have a large driver base (note, likely doesn't apply to this forum) who don't know good engineering or design when they see it. They confuse "I spent good money on this" with "this is a good product".

Sorry, we all have our opinions and perspective, but money isn't the only value judgement.

I want my speedo in my easy line of vision on any vehicle I drive. I want to be able to demist my windscreen by reaching for a button I can find without taking my eyes off the road.

[jjcob]

People buy them and might still hate the touch screen. I know I hate my car's touch screen.

Just because people buy something doesn't mean they love every aspect of it.

[mmcclure]

I overall liked our Model Y, but the infotainment/touch screen situation was my biggest complaint.

We recently switched to an ID Buzz because our family outgrew the Y. The interior is a huge improvement over the Y (which, fair, it is a more expensive vehicle) and CarPlay is just objectively better than Tesla’s infotainment, but the rest of the software is pretty meh. I really miss a lot of little things like phone keys and a built in dash cam, though.