[kadomony]

University-taught computer science curriculum is going to have to change drastically.

Disclaimer: I am not a CS degree holder. But I did attempt a masters in software engineering and it was really eye-opening to me to see how far behind "traditional" curriculum was when compared to real-world opportunities. My university completely overlooked things like front-end web development and a host of other modern needs at the time; when I spoke to the dean, he recommended the school might just not be a fit.

So if we're leaving students behind for AI outputs and shutting the door in favor of the old guard, what happens to the new wave? Will schools train them to get to the point of working with systems enough to call bullshit on AI? Are schools even teaching students AI right now?

I ask sincerely just because when I pushed for change in curriculum, I basically was shown the door that led to me dropping out and (thankfully) landing a gig at a startup that opened up another (better) door for me.

[atiedebee]

I disagree that front end web development should be taught in a computer science curriculum. It seems like it's more of a designer job rather than science/engineering. I am currently in university, and machine learning is a mandatory part of the curriculum. I think most universities do AI in one form or another actually.

[soulofmischief]

Modern frontend development often involves a large degree of cross-domain expertise that extends well beyond design, so much that in large enough companies, the designer is a dedicated role, and the frontend developer simply implements their design according to spec. In even larger companies, you will see further specialized roles such as UX engineer.

[crent]

If you think of FE web development as just HTML, CSS, JS and the framework de jour then I could see that. However, the most skilled FE engineers I know aren’t just doing that. It involves handling CI/CD, performance profiling/enhancements, CDNs, debugging node environments, asset management, caching strategies and the list goes on. I’m not necessarily arguing that it should be included in CS degrees but all of that is surely not a designers job.

[checker659]

I think there should be a new SE field for this.

[wpm]

They weren't in a CS curriculum, they said they were pursuing software engineering.

[atiedebee]

Ah I see, I got confused because they mentioned not holding a CS-degree.

[fifilura]

If you were looking for learning front end development in a CS masters program, I would agree with the dean.

There must be plenty of opportunities to learn that also in USA.

[kadomony]

That was just an example, not strictly what I was there for. I just pointed it out to the dean as something that was always mentioned, but glanced over like "ew, this doesn't matter so much".

It, in fact, ended up mattering a lot.

[giancarlostoro]

My 2 year college taught web, linux scripting, C, C++, Java, C#, even Android and iOS, and I studied from 2011 to 2013. I definitely think some schools are more behind than others in terms of what they teach.

It's a shame since once you have the foundation, the degree is irrelevant imho. You continue learning on the job and off the job.

[crackalamoo]

To some extent, AI needs less extensive teaching than the problem-solving skills taught in school because it works in natural language anyways and builds off whatever else you know. You can easily talk to an AI about CS if you know CS, or even use it for coding, but not so much if you only know "AI".

It's not that learning AI isn't important, it's just that school isn't necessarily the place for it: AI is always changing, and can be learned relatively easily online, while properly learning something like linear algebra or operating systems online is pretty unlikely except for a very motivated student.

[moandcompany]

Computer Science curriculum is often different from the practice of software development or "software engineering," in practice, which academic-learning departments may consider too-vocational and to the detriment of their students.

Some programs have had to supplement their CS-curriculum with courses incorporating instruction on software engineering practices (e.g. version control). The "AI" being sold today isn't going to replace these practices.

[matthewdgreen]

In general the dean of any institution oversees dozens of departments. The CS department chair or department head is the person who actually understands and represents the department and its specific curriculum.

[kadomony]

I probably am misremembering then and just use the dean as a generalized title. This was almost 13 years ago. This person was definitely in charge of curriculum, I remember that much, so probably not the dean. Thanks for correcting my misuse of the word.

[goatlover]

Computer science is about the science of computing not the latest trends in software development. Those don't change the fundamentals of computer science.

[Spivak]

I mean I guess but CS is also the track you get put on if you want to be a SWE. I would make an even stronger statement that within a rounding error 0% of the students in a given CS course will go on to be computer scientists. So while what you're saying is literally true there is a real disconnect between what students in CS programs want to learn and the skills they want to acquire and what is being taught. The parent is very reasonably picking up on that.

This isn't really limited to CS programs either, something is deeply wrong with the system when college grads are only marginally more prepared to enter their chosen field than HS grads. One of my friends does work building cutting edge sensors for scientific equipment— literally the ideal case for an academic curriculum. They not two months ago rejected an ivy ECE major in favor of a guy with no degree but who builds custom toy drones as a hobby.