The entire point that Zelensky was making to Vance is that every instance of diplomacy Ukraine has had with Russia has been discarded when it's convenient by Russia. Trump wants what looks good on TV, which is a peace deal, but without any plan or security assurances Russia will simply invade again when they rebuild their army.
Ukraine needs to rebuild its army too, and would benefit more relative to Russia from a ceasefire, even if Russia reinvaded. You people are so wildly irrational.
That's just not true, Russia is short on tanks, Ukraine is reaching artillery parity, and Ukraine has a permenant manpower crisis whereas Russia has deep reserves it can pull from for training if given time. Western countries would stop aid flows to Ukraine during a ceasefire while Russia would be free to rearm. A temp. ceasefire would not help Ukraine.
Moreover, why would Ukraine want to negotiate a temp ceasefire? If they can snag security guarantees they have better odds of a long term peace.
Fair and I agree with you, but do you agree that the only ways out of stalemate are ceasefire or west entering the conflict? Are you advocating for the west to enter the conflict?
Coming from the people who spent $2.5 trillion fighting goat herders with ak47s for over 20 years, and lost, that's a good one...
Either way it's not a reason to publicly humiliate Zelensky, to announce he's a dictator, to repeat Russian propaganda talking points, &c.
If your version of peace is to unconditionally accept all of the aggressor's demands, shit on the country being invaded and steal their resources don't be surprised if people don't clap
I think the question most others in Europe are concerned about is "How far west does Russia stop?", and given that they held Berlin only about 35 years ago, and they're openly talking about Paris on state TV, the answer is "they don't, unless we stop them in Ukraine already". That whole perspective makes that question somewhat redundant and too narrow in scope given all the context around it.
This is insanity. You have lost your mind. Europe is covered by a nuclear umbrella and is thus in no danger from Russian invasion.
And you still haven't answered the question, which indicates that you don't see any Ukrainian path to victory - rather your intention is to throw all of Ukraine into the meat grinder in order to make yourself slightly safer from a completely hypothetical Russian invasion, which is profoundly unethical.
Your premise and any assumptions that build on that are invalid.
The Soviet Union and China had a war. When they both had a nuclear umbrella, the Soviet Union having twice as many nuclear weapons as they do now. What else... India and Pakistan? The Korean war? mjfl, here's some news... did you know there's _two_ Koreas? Russia is in other European states right now - Moldova, Georgia. Never mind the hybrid warfare, I feel at best the need to only vaguely point in that direction. Just as much as I'll vaguely point out that that nuclear umbrella just shrunk to a quarter of its previous size. And how can you say "Europe is covered by a nuclear umbrella" when the largest nation by area entirely in Europe is not covered by it.
Can you do us a favour and at least make a list of Wikipedia articles or historical events or entire nations we're supposed to pretend don't exist, including, paradoxically, Russia?
Yes? Any response. I agree with you, let's not glorify meat grinders.
In fact, let's stand diametrically opposed to those who would.
I'll just type 'meat grinder' and 'battle' into Google. Here's the top result: "Battles of Rzhev". Let's go to the Wikipedia page for it and Ctrl-F 'glory'. "[...] Military Glory by the President of Russia Vladimir Putin [...]".
There you go. We should stand diametrically opposed to a certain "President of Russia Vladimir Putin". Gee, I wonder if that's the same guy as the current "President of Russia Vladimir Putin"... do you think?
So... any examples of that Quisling, Vichy, Chamberlain approach - roll over and plead for mercy while exposing your belly - that resulted in a permanent peace in Europe? I mean we want to avoid a meat grinder don't we, so given all that history you'll have plenty of proof that this time, this exact situation, will somehow be magically different.