[graemep]

Out of interest is it his role in American politics or his interference in European politics or other things that you find more annoying.

I and British. I do not really feel there is much political significance in what car you buy, but I am definitely annoyed by his attempts to influence British politics (offering a political party a huge donation if they allowed an extremist to join - they turned him down).

[pauletienney]

Well, to me, he used to represent technological ambition, impossible achievements made real. Now he represents foreign interference, social violence and neo fascism. And we, European (and especially French people), have a very very low tolerance for social violence and fascism.

[Doches]

As someone who lived in the sud-ouest during the yellow vests protests, "very very low tolerance for social violence" is...not my general impression of the French people.

(Low tolerance for fascism, yes, obviously. But "social violence" is pretty much what passes for entertainment on a Saturday morning)

[black_puppydog]

Social violence describes the gutting of social security, healthcare systems etc to the detriment of primarily the most vulnerable. Not the fact that people protest, however violently. It's just not the right vocabulary.

[oooyay]

I don't view political organization as violence, I view it as a healthy democracy - even if the country or people don't agree with the conclusions of that group of people. It is healthy that they feel comfortable expressing their wants and needs to the people with power to change it.

What Elon is doing in the US isn't organizing or demanding the system to be better; it's taking control of the system and saying he can do better.

[_bin_]

To be clear, the french regularly engage in violence, of which the yellow vest riots are an excellent example. Damage to property and injury to persons is not “political organization”, it is definitionally violence.

[euroderf]

> "very very low tolerance for social violence" is...not my general impression of the French people.

"French people" includes the French police, I presume.

For "social violence" it might be informative to substitute "direct action". For example, there is José Bové.

[mytailorisrich]

A rose by any other name...

By the way, "Action Directe" was a famous French terrorist organisation in the 80s [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Directe

[mytailorisrich]

The French are the European experts on social violence (and I am French)...

In fact OP's comment somewhat shows the often noxious atmosphere in France. Here in the UK I see Teslas everywhere and people don't say or do anything (maybe they comment on the neighbour's new Tesla at home but they are polite in public in a very British way, and criminal damage is a serious crime...) In France I can believe that a Tesla owner may fear that their car will be vandalised or that some random people might throw insults at them in the street if Tesla is labeled the wrong way...

Edit: TBH, I wouldn't even say that there is a low tolerance for fascism because historically and to this day, economic interventionism, strong state, strong leader, political violence, tendency towards authoritarism, social conservatism have been big part of the culture. That is balanced by a tendency towards anarchism at the same time...

[iamacyborg]

People are literally putting stickers on Teslas in London calling them Swasticars.

https://www.newsweek.com/activists-brand-tesla-vehicles-swas...

[belter]

https://www.instagram.com/gainzilla80_ifbbpro/p/DFdRzMAvv6k/

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaK8eM...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEMZ4w...

[dzhiurgis]

People who hate nazi’s are putting swastikas everywhere. It’s on the level of gluing yourself somewhere or throwing paint on works of art when protesting.

Worst part (or best) the left will take an L on their beloved cars while selling them to right.

[_DeadFred_]

A car needs a working supply chain to stay on the road. If no one's buying new Teslas the longevity/viability of existing ones changes from owning a popular car to owning a Fisker. Get out while the resale value is still decent.

[dzhiurgis]

You are tripping if you think most popular car in the world will become Fisker.

[mytailorisrich]

Obviously there are idiots everywhere... My point is about cultural and societal tendencies.

[elthran]

At least in the UK the license plate lets you know when the car was registered, so it's simple to tell if they bought the Tesla before Elon went off the cliff fully. I'm not going to begrudge anyone who doesn't sell their car, my judgement is reserved for the people buying them now

[mytailorisrich]

Wow, that is not sinister at all... /s

Edit: My comment is obviously not about cars number plates...

[brianmcc]

It's harmless, it's a 6 month window. Number plate:

XX24 - registered between 1 Mar 2024 - 31 Aug 2024

XX74 - registered between 1 Sep 2024 - 28 Feb 2025

XX25 - registered between 1 Mar 2025 - 31 Aug 2025

etc

The first two letters of a number plate identifies the location where the vehicle was registered. For example, LA – LY covers London and MA – MY covers Manchester and Merseyside. Nothing personally identifying whatsoever.

If you're truly paranoid about such things you can always buy a car registered hundreds of miles from your residence, and in practice with an abundance of second-hand (used) cars in the marketplace from across all the UK, there's always a huge variety of registration letters driving about anyway!

[Toutouxc]

They said "judgement", not setting them ablaze. I will also, inevitably, have some sort of opinion on people who have bought a Tesla after Jan 2025.

[rsynnott]

I mean, what's sinister about judging someone for their car?

[EasyMark]

This has been exactly my take on the situation. 2 years ago, I followed his exploits and his companies. Now I skim articles about him at best mostly shaking my head. He went from a fellow tech bro to to tech no.

[ekianjo]

> have a very very low tolerance social violence and fascism

Except when it comes to enforcing mandates and putting people in jail for stuff they post online.

It's always the same thing. Don't pretend Europeans have principles when they failed every test in the past 10 years

[_bin_]

Yep, freedoms of speech, of association, and to bear arms are seriously jeapordized by nearly every ruling European regime. It’s a shame America doesn’t stand up for our values and punish Europe until she quits oppressing her citizens.

[lqet]

German here. He directly and openly supported the far-right AfD party in the last election by publicly asking people to vote for them, and by holding a video-call audience with the party leadership.

I don't care who votes what, but I certainly do not like when people who do not live here and do not have to deal with any consequences of an election result try do to election interference.

[palata]

Not the OP, but to me it's all of it. Just the nazi salutes would be enough for me not to buy Teslas (or StarLink), but at this point I would avoid any US car.

[ffsm8]

Ford is based though. I mean the CEO said publicly (on a podcast ) that the Xiaomi Car is better then anything they've ever produced.

Now that's a statement! (also the Xiaomi Car has massively under specced breaks. But that's hard to notice as a normal driver as he is)

[cjrp]

I wouldn't say Jim Farley (Ford CEO) is a normal driver; he races vintage cars, modern Mustangs and other things too.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Ford is based though.

Well. the Wikipedia article on Henry Ford has a whole section entitled "Antisemitism" which starts "Ford was a conspiracy theorist" and details Nazi links.

So, what else is new in the world of Car Company tycoons?

[senordevnyc]

I'll also be open to rethinking purchasing a Tesla once Musk has been dead for 75 years.

[rsynnott]

See, the critical thing is, Henry Ford is, thankfully, very, very dead. Ford, the modern company, is not run by a 150 year old zombie bigot. It's a very different situation.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

Yes, and as the other commenter noted, 75 years after Henry Ford's death, Ford's image is mostly rehabilitated. Mostly. People who avoid Ford vehicles for this reason (rather than avoiding the vehicles on their own merits) are rare but they do exist.

Perhaps 50 or more years after the end of Tesla's iconic leader, the same rehabilitation will happen to Tesla.

[aredox]

Clearly, if you want to buy a Tesla because of "Ecology" and "the Planet", there is no reason to do so anymore as your purchase directly funds the exact opposite of what you want to achieve. Same with superchargers.

[KoolKat23]

This is an honest question, in good faith. How so? I'm just curious, an interesting thought.

[ozmodiar]

Because he forwards political causes in the US and abroad that are vehemently anti-global warming and anti environmental protection in general (among other things...). This will likely more than undo any contributions he's theoretically made.

[rvnx]

And actions that may likely indirectly increase the odds of a larger war in Europe.

[throw0101c]

> This is an honest question, in good faith. How so? I'm just curious, an interesting thought.

Giving more money to Tesla is giving more power to Musk, who is helping Trump and others achieve implement policies:

* https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c977njnvq2do

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

On the eco stuff specifically, Trump literally said that climate change was a Chinese hoax:

* https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jun/03/hillary-cl...

* https://www.factcheck.org/2024/09/trump-clings-to-inaccurate...

* https://climate.law.columbia.edu/content/trump-issues-execut...

Most recently "Trump bars federal scientists from working on pivotal global [IPCC] climate report":

* https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/21/climate/trump-blocks-scientis...

These are things even oil-man Dubya Bush didn't do.

[viraptor]

He's a co-president with Trump recently forbidding mentioning climate change in documents, destroying ecology research, pushing energy policy EO supporting fossil fuel producers, and dumping federal EVs and existing chargers in the buildings. It looks like he just cares about the profit from EVs and completely disregards the environment part.

[reverius42]

The richer Elon Musk gets, the more he (appears) to use that wealth to skew politics towards anti-"eco" policies. By giving Trump an unprecedented $250 million during the 2024 election, he may have even been the deciding factor in funding some of the advertising that led people to decide to vote Trump, or to stay home instead of vote for Harris.

And needless to say, Trump's policies on the environment ("drill baby drill") don't exactly align with the hippie stereotype of electric car buyers ("no more oil").

[ZeroGravitas]

He was literally and directly funding targeted advertising that told people in Muslim areas that Harris supported Israel and in Jewish dominated areas that she supported Hamas.

He was working with Stephen Miller, one of the crazier members of Trump's team (no easy achievement), on this.

[themgt]

fwiw microtargeting ads is extremely common, all presidential campaigns for the past 20 years at least have been doing this. If you're not cynical about ~everyone in politics you're probably drinking too much microtargeted kool-aid (your favorite flavor!):

A CNN investigation found that Vice President Kamala Harris is running contradictory ads about the war in Israel, depending on where you live.

If you live in Michigan, a state with a dense Muslim-American population, you will see ads about how she supports the relief efforts in Gaza, where she says she "will not be silent."

The Michigan ad states: "What has happened in Gaza in the past nine months in devastating, we cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering," Harris is quoted in the ad.

If you drive East to Pennsylvania and flip on a television, you'll see the vice president at a different podium in an ad saying: "Let me be clear, I will always stand up for Israel's right to defend itself, and I will always ensure Israel's ability to defend itself."

For the second ad, taken from her DNC speech, the part where she advocates for peace in Gaza was edited out. CNN reports it was taken out so her message could be more strongly accepted by Jewish voters in Pennsylvania.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/beyond-the-podium/cnn-kamalas-con...

[graemep]

> The richer Elon Musk gets, the more he (appears) to use that wealth to skew politics towards anti-"eco" policies

Which is odd as it directly goes against his own interests.

> the hippie stereotype of electric car buyers ("no more oil").

Is that still the stereotype? This might depend on where you are (I am in the UK) but my stereotype of EV buyers is affluent with a tilt to urban.

[viraptor]

> Which is odd as it directly goes against his own interests.

His recent interest is power. He can use that for profit later in many different ways - he's working on firing people who wanted to investigate his idea of using X as a payment network, for example.

[graemep]

That is a reasonable explanation. He is well past the point where people want money for spending power. Any billionaire is after power and status.

[CyberDildonics]

> The richer Elon Musk gets, the more he (appears) to use that wealth to skew politics towards anti-"eco" policies

Which is odd as it directly goes against his own interests.

It goes against his image, not his interests. These are two very different things.

[ddmf]

Definitely wouldn't buy a car from someone who feels it's ok to do a couple of nazi salutes in a very public way.

[mongol]

> I do not really feel there is much political significance in what car you buy

It is who you pay. You are directly supporting him with the purchase.

[graemep]

Him and every other shareholders.

According to this Musk only own 13%

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/TESLA-INC-6344549...

Barely more than Vanguard + Blackrock.

[sundaeofshock]

I do not care about other shareholders. I do care about Musk.

Tesla accounts for 60% of Musk’s wealth which he used to buy the US presidency and he continues to use to promote fascists around the world.

Depressing the value of Tesla stock reducing Musk’s influence.

[_bin_]

Believe it or not, twelve figures can probably influence an election regardless of the first digit. Zeroing out tesla and taking him down to a paltry hundred-billion-and-change would still leave him handily able to cut another quarter-billion-dollar check come ‘28.

This is performative.

[sundaeofshock]

Musk’s Tesla stock is highly leveraged. Zeroing out Tesla ruins him.

[BoredPositron]

Looking at Tesla resale values and the reliability issues over longer periods of ownership it’s just a sane consumer decision.

[_DeadFred_]

A big part of owning a car is keeping it on the road. I feel safer buying a popular car. How easy is it for Fisker owners to get replacement parts?

[BoredPositron]

I wouldn’t buy a fisker either.

[jordanb]

I mean, that hasn't changed in the last quarter so people buying Teslas before had already come to terms with the fact that they were buying an unreliable luxury vehicle they can't get rid of...

[BoredPositron]

I know it’s a ceo playtoy but for me the cybertruck with its design quirks killed the brand for me. They are so many idiotic decisions on the truck that I just don’t trust the engineering and design teams anymore. I was driving with a colleague and we had to clean the headlights every 40 minutes because of snow…

[fallingknife]

Source on Tesla reliability stats?

[rvnx]

> Consumer Reports (CR):

> Tesla has consistently ranked low in CR's reliability surveys:

> In the 2021 Brand Report Card, Tesla ranked 16th out of 32 brands, down from 11th in 2020.

> In 2022, Tesla ranked 23rd out of 28 brands with a reliability score of 39 out of 100.

> J.D. Power:

> In the 2023 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study, Tesla had 242 issues per 100 vehicles, significantly above the industry average of 186, placing it 28th out of 32 brands.

> RepairPal:

> Tesla vehicles average 171 mechanical issues per 100 vehicles, compared to the industry average of around 120.

> 27th out of 28 brands in CR's reliability study (BusinessInsider.com and InsideEVs.com).

[BoredPositron]

https://www.tuvsud.com/en/press-and-media/2024/november/the-...

[lqet]

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom...

[sandos]

Also expensive insurance, which is partly influenced by reliability.

[thrance]

All of it? That he sig heiled on live TV was probably the nail on the coffin for a lot of (sane) people.

[pjc50]

Elon vs Reform UK is extremely funny, because Reform is the wholly owned pet project of Richard Tice. A local real estate guy who's a mere millionaire and unimpressed at a foreign billionaire trying to run him over with superior money.

[notahacker]

Nah, it's even funnier than that. It's majority owned by Farage the guy Elon wanted to oust, with Tice holding the rest, because as you say he's a money man whose pet project is giving Farage power.

Also, even Farage's most implacable opponents would concede that he's by far the most effective campaigning MP in the UK, as well as an avid Trump supporter, so dumping him would be a hilarious own goal if it was even possible especially when it's dumping him for not endorsing a football hooligan. It would also be history repeating itself since Farage's old party went from winning elections to being a complete irrelevance when Farage "retired" and the hooligans joined...

[graemep]

Did he want to dump Farage?

I thought he wanted Farage to let Tommy Robinson join reform in return for a large donation.

> It would also be history repeating itself since Farage's old party went from winning elections to being a complete irrelevance when Farage "retired" and the hooligans joined

IIRC the trigger for Farage to leave that party (he had already resigned as leader) was the new party leader wanted to form an alliance with Tommy Robinson's lot.

[jordanb]

> Did he want to dump Farage?

He wanted Farage to bend all the way over. Farage refused so Elon tried to oust him, completely misunderstanding that the Reform party is Farage. It'd be like if Elon had gotten in a spat with Trump during the election and tried to swap him out for Vivek as the head of MAGA.

[zfg]

Musk turned on Farage: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70ep8lp4jjo

Which came as a surprise to Farage who had previously welcomed and endorsed Musk's desire to interfere in UK politics: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1kez8d2dygo

[pjc50]

It's remarkable how much both Trump and Farage are cults of personality. I don't think they could easily be replaced. I wonder if Brexit would have happened if Farage hadn't survived his plane crash? Or would the media elect another figurehead to put on all the talk shows?

[HighGoldstein]

> I wonder if Brexit would have happened if Farage hadn't survived his plane crash? Or would the media elect another figurehead to put on all the talk shows?

Seeing as the difference was 1.89%, even marginally less effective campaigning would've doubtless resulted in a vote to remain in the EU.

[rsynnott]

Almost certainly not, given how close the vote was.

[graemep]

Is there are cult of personality around Farage? He is an effective campaigner as previous comments said, but its not personal charisma or adulation.

On the other hand Trump supporters so seem to think he is absolutely wonderful - some sort of messiah.

[pjc50]

The evidence is the chain of parties that Farage has been through. The support follows him, leaving the previous party as an empty shell.

[ChocolateGod]

Farage is a great speaker, and is extremely good at making what he's saying seem the truth, even if it's not so.

But it's far from the support people have for Trump.

[tim333]

Farage is quite reasonable on many policy positions also and reflects the views of quite a lot of the British public who would prefer traditional values, less immigration and the like. While I don't think I'd vote for him personally he has a good chance of being the next PM.

[rsynnott]

Yeah, they're quite _different_. I'd call Farage very good at what he does (lying, largely), but he doesn't have the same sort of cult of personality as Trump (or for that matter Musk).

[jblezo]

It's not so much his actions, it's just that giving money to someone who gives a Nazi salute is a problem for me.

[ChocolateGod]

I'm British and think Elon Musk does a lot of cool things. I don't really care about what he does in American politics, I actually think the idea that government needs to stop wasting money is a good thing.

But he tries to influence European/British politics without living here, often believing mistruths or things out of context. Americans moan (rightfully so) when Europeans try get involved in their politics, but are happy to do the reverse.

Regarding Tesla, the UK/EU is going to make zero effort to protect Tesla from Chinese imports that the US will. Musk has burned that bridge.

[short_sells_poo]

> I don't really care about what he does in American politics.

You should. Whether you like it or not, what he is doing in the US is going to affect you one way or another, irrespective of his meddling in UK politics. Even if he focused his attention solely on US, the world is connected and particularly the US/European relationship has been one of the defining features of geopolitics over the last 70 years. Musk and company are basically dismantling this relationship.

The current US administration will profoundly alter the relationships between countries and power blocks for the foreseeable future. The US will cease being a reliable partner for it's old allies the UK included.

Musk was doing many cool things, but currently his focus seems to be to dismantle democracy, and this should definitely worry you if you value freedom.

[insane_dreamer]

> I don't really care about what he does in American politics

Makes sense. Except that American politics can have a huge impact on Europe. Just look at Trumps shafting of Ukraine in favor of a relationship with Russia .

[epolanski]

Not previous user, but as an Italian I am genuinely worried about how powerful and dangerous Elon is. The man effectively controls a good bunch of the telecom and space capabilities of the most powerful country in the world and its allies.

I want to have nothing to do with any of his businesses, socials, services and I'm extremely worried about doge and his presence in the US administration.

The person completely lacks any empathy, it's a full blown sociopath. His politics are just a reflection of his deep psychological malaise.

[fallingknife]

How has he "interfered" in European politics? AFAIK all he has done is state his opinion.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/02/24/germany-...

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250216-germany-s-far...

https://www.dw.com/en/how-elon-musk-meddled-in-germanys-elec...

[fallingknife]

These are all links to him supporting a party. That's not interference.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

From articles:

> led German regulators to investigate Musk for election interference.

> How Elon Musk meddled in Germany's elections

Those articles disagree with your categorisation.

The foreign owner of a major social media platform is not in the same position as any random citizen donating 10 euros or tweeting once.