[cjonas]

How is the "code" represented in the backend? Can it be exported, checked into source control and deployed via CI/CD?

With the advances we are seeing in AI coding workspaces, "visual programming" seems like a dead end if the code isn't optimized for machine comprehension. I do think visual representation of code will become important to be able to more easily understand the AI generated systems, but it's just not an inefficient way to encode logic for AI (turns of code is a very effective at this).

IMO, for these low code runtimes to survive, they need to be "transpilable" to a simple DSL (or subset of a popular language) and have an LSP for agents to interact with.

[wavemode]

I take the opposite view. The semantics of visual programming are very simple compared to text-based programming. This makes it more amenable to AI autocomplete, not less. A visual IDE could just convert the blocks to text, then prompt the LLM API with "here are the current blocks, and here are the blocks available to you. Suggest some more blocks." and then insert the response.

[cjonas]

I agree the abstraction level is perfect for AI, but not having it accessible (or even just in a format that is well represented in the training data) is a problem. From a CTO's perspective, encoding our processes in something like this removes my ability to leverage the general AI programming capabilities of the future that billions of dollars are currently being invested in.

It's a technical debt dead end.

[maximamas]

Checks out, that’s definitely a CTO’s perspective.

[shivsarthak34]

This is a very interesting take. It currently cannot be exported but It sure can be achieved. Wow i think this is something i'll prioritise to implement. Thank you so much for the insight, it can be a good differentiator too.

[nprateem]

I really wouldn't bother if you're targetting non-tech users.

[cjonas]

I disagree...

What's the SDLC story? How do I move between environments, roll back, manage hotfixes alongside feature development, etc?

It's these "non-functional" feature that end up being the downfall of many of the integration projects I've been brought in to save.

John in accounting sets up a Salesforce to Netsuite integration that becomes mission critical and it works... Until it doesn't.

[jamamp]

I'll also agree with you.

I want to start with the fact that building FlowRipples is a monumental feat of its own. Generic tools that are adaptable to lots of situations is a difficult task, and it's impressive what was built.

But the supporting functionality in any service like this is also so important. It's one thing to have a low friction setup and way to get started, with simple steps and a quick showcase video, so that someone can get to tinkering. It's another thing to fully adopt this as a tool within your team that would be integrated into a published product.

Suddenly, like you say, you have multiple environments (Dev, QA, Staging/Pre-prod, Prod) that you have to move changes into and out of. Replicating the same changes manually will inevitably lead to human error and what worked in QA will no longer work in Staging or Production. Even a simple export + import helps with this.

I think one thing that also needs attention is parallel changes. Two people are wokring on different changes in the dev environment. Promoting the current state of the Dev environment to QA requires that both tasks have to be dev-complete, or else unfinished changes could make its way to QA and cause confusion. This is difficult when the different tasks aren't synchronized in their testing (i.e. start testing one ticket but not necessarily the other). It's almost like you need branching and merging and diffing, a la git, to help resolve this. That's difficult to do in low-code visual programming apps.

[apsurd]

+1

i learned recently that we pay $20/month for a hubspot app to intake our sendgrid webbook data and display it on a hubspot profile.

email engagement metrics are very useful so it makes sense.

one day we stopped seeing events in hubspot. sales had to give me their account password, i looked into it, no logs, no visibility, not even a status page. i sent a support ticket.

in the next few days i learned how to make a hubspot marketplace app and brought it all in house. it was non trivial and not ideal use of time, but now we have 100% visibility. everyone thought it was the right choice.