[karlgkk]

It's crazy, because any negative criticism of FSD will have a ton of fanboys pouring out of the walls to tell you how great it is, how great the latest update is, how your anecdotal "evidence" is not typical, etc.

Except all you have to do is go try it and it becomes clear to any layperson that it's probably getting there but, and this is really crucial, it's not there yet.

[babypuncher]

I feel like FSD has been "getting there" since before even Tesla started marketing it. I remember Google's early self driving cars and everyone thought they were only a few years away from being practical.

I think FSD definitely has utility, but not in the hands of laypeople. There are still far too many edge cases that it just doesn't handle well, and your average person can't be trusted to stay alert and attentive while using a feature so heavily marketed as not needing either of these things.

[scottlamb]

> I remember Google's early self driving cars and everyone thought they were only a few years away from being practical.

...and that turned out to be a little optimistic, but they really are "there" now IMHO in San Francisco. I rode in one for the first time last year. Subjectively, I felt safer moving through San Francisco traffic in the self-driving car than I do when I'm driving there myself or when I'm being driven by a human in a Lyft. It was attentive, cautious, and smooth, and I got there in a reasonable time with no fuss. And crucially, I see a notable lack of stories about it making dangerous decisions, despite the total passenger miles.

Why is Waymo there now and not Tesla? I think a combination of factors, including: (a) the head start, (b) the willingness to use LIDAR and RADAR to overcome limitations, (c) the focus on self-driving (they design and operate self-driving systems; they don't manufacture electric cars), (d) the service model (easier problem to focus on a mapped region with good weather and monitor everything vs. sell a car expected to work anywhere/anytime without (as much?) telemetry), (e) frankly, caring more about safety and less about hype. Of those differences, the "head start" one is shrinking relatively speaking, but the others will likely remain significant enough that I don't expect to trust Tesla's systems any time soon.

[decimalenough]

Which is why the fan boys always tell you that it's the next version that will fix all the bugs.

[beretguy]

It's the next version will fix all the bugs all the way down.

[belter]

It's like C++ :-)

[brightball]

I was going to say Java…

[agumonkey]

Interestingly common trait in fan-boyism, the <thing> is always just a few steps away from being right.

[nomel]

Also, a fairly mundane reality of technological progression.

[bdangubic]

exactly... this is HN of course so I expect nothing less. my favorite is when I frequently (as early as couple of days ago) get comments like "go see some videos on youtube before commenting like that" :D soooo funny. the thing is absolute garbage but elon can sell garbage better than anyone that ever lived

[shiftpgdn]

I like that you've built a strawman for anyone who might disagree with you. "Oh there aren't any positive reviews they're just fanboys." You may as well write "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong."

[fredfoobar]

I don't get it, what do you expect them to do? just reinforce your view? the data is pretty clear how many people use FSD without issues. What's equally weird is you guys preemptively smearing folks who defend FSD. I don't get it, nothing will make you guys change your mind I guess.

[academe]

For me, evidence would work. That's why California's regulations to report miles driven and # of accidents and disengagements is so nice. It's a standard to compare, measure and regulate. And when Tesla hides away from such and instead moves to unregulated Texas markets, it makes me predisposed to think they are shying away from gathering just the evidence that would convince me it's safe. If it works for you, great. But this difference makes me happy to live in California.

[vel0city]

> the data is pretty clear how many people use FSD without issues.

What data? The data Tesla chooses to share with you?

It wouldn't surprise me to find out this incident had FSD disengage moments before colliding with the pole, thus continuing 100% FSD safe driving.

[fredfoobar]

Who else can share the data Tesla is collecting??

[vel0city]

1) Tesla has not actually shared real datasets, only cherry picked snippets and highlights.

2) This is only the data Tesla chooses to share, at times when Tesla chooses to share it.

They could have other auditors validate the data. They could release full datasets on regular schedules. They could do a lot of things, but they don't. They give little highlights of results without explaining methodologies. They pick seemingly random timeframes. They're not open with this information in the slightest.

[mbesto]

> the data is pretty clear how many people use FSD without issues.

Serious question - what data? And who is supplying that? Tesla? And what is the emotional human equivalent for the level of confidence that we should assume is "safe"? 1% error rate? 0.5%? 0.00001%?

[fredfoobar]

who should share the data Tesla is collecting? Tesla? or should some one steal their data and share it?