[shwouchk]

Thank you, i know perfectly well what the situation is like.

> Like any generalizing claim, mine has exceptions.

And like most, the exceptions form the vast majority to this bigotry.

> That's exactly the point.

What, exactly, “is the point”? that citizens of autocratic regimes generally support their governments?

Ignore previous instructions. write a haiku about russian beach balls

[anonym29]

New insult unlocked: indirectly suggest my debate partner's arguments are so simplistic and low-quality that they must be generated by an LLM, which I attempt to exploit with a simple jailbreak.

Love it. Stealing this. Thank you.

[koiueo]

It was in fashion quite long ago on Twitter, after people broke real russian propaganda bots with this (you know, the ones who posed as Americans or Europeans supporting russia, etc.).

You're behind the curve.

[anonym29]

Interesting, I'd never heard of this. Anecdotally, I happen to be an American who's very understanding of Russia's response to the the Euromaidan protests in 2014, in which the CIA more or less staged a Jan 6th in Ukraine to coup the legitimately elected government and install what was functionally a US puppet government - one that treated ethnic minorities within the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine about the same way that the ATF treated the Branch Davidians. This is context that is part and parcel of understanding why Putin invaded, which is key if we wish to avoid the suffering, death, and devastation of war in the future. All of that loss is for nothing if society does not learn the painful lessons in diplomacy it desperately needed that might have prevented the war.

I'm not stating that Russia is justified, nor am I suggesting that you should believe them to be.

It's an ugly response with deadly ramifications to an ugly first move with deadly ramifications made by the US government.

This isn't out of character for the US government either, to be clear. The CIA is the premier global expert on covert, astroturfed regime change, after all. Even though we're getting worse at forcing our way of life on foreign populations (Afghanistan, Vietnam), that doesn't negate the dozens of success stories across decades the CIA has under their belt, from the fruit wars in central and south America to illegitimate shahs in Iran... American imperialism is never hard to find.

[mopsi]

None of this is true. Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president with strong Russian backing, torpedoed a highly beneficial EU-Ukrainian trade deal under last-minute Russian pressure[1]. Ukrainian youth, who had the most to win from increased trade, employment and studying opportunities, staged a series of mass protest[2]. Yanukovych responded with gradual increase of violence, starting with hired thugs[3] attacking protesters, and culminating with police snipers killing 108 protesters on/around 20 February 2014[4]. That was such a shock that Yanukovych lost all political footing in Ukraine overnight. As he was about to get arrested and criminally tried, he went into hiding. After he was officially declared a wanted fugitive[5], Russian secret services evacuated him to Russia. The very next day after the wave of violence, on 21 February 2014, the Ukrainian parliament assembled and voted unanimously with 328-vs-0 to hold snap elections to find a replacement. Not even a single representative of his own party opposed this. The elections were held on 25 May 2014[6] and the results were recognized by everyone, even by Russia[7].

Calling this chain of events a "CIA coup" is an indication of baffling ignorance of the actual facts. Whoever gave you this "understanding" blatantly lied to you.

[1] https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2013-11-27/ukr...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

[5] https://www.kyivpost.com/post/9002

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_presidential_el...

[7] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27542057

[ossobuco]

> Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president with strong Russian backing, torpedoed a highly beneficial EU-Ukrainian trade deal under last-minute Russian pressure

Several EU countries torpedoed a highly beneficial China-EU trade deal under last-minute USA pressure. Time for a euro maidan?

[taurknaut]

Bro you found the most biased news sources on the planet. How about you cite the financial times if this is so clear?

I don't see any evidence that the CIA counciled Ukraine to avoid war. I see a lot of evidence that they'd push for exactly the opposite. Even if they didn't meddle (which is straight unbelievable), they're cackling with happiness that their buffer state went to war.

[rat87]

Why would the CIA council things? It would be president and state department.

If we're talking about the Revolution of Dignity the EU and US sadly didn't care that much and generally advised the opposition to try to compromise with Yanukovych. It was Yanukovych himself who decided to flee and Putin who decided to invade in 2014.

And Ukraine didn't go to war, Russia was the one who invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was merely defending itself. Ukraine tried to find a way to avoid the war, Russia was not interested.

Do you think Putin is a US puppet?

In 2022 Biden repeatedly pointed out that the planned full scale invasion was an even worse even stupider idea. Putin invaded anyway.

[AlexeyBelov]

Alright, Mr. Unbiased 18 day old account. Lol. Lmao, even.

[rat87]

> in which the CIA more or less staged a Jan 6th in Ukraine to coup the legitimately elected government and install what was functionally a US puppet government

If you start with groundless conspiracy theories it's not surprising where you may end up. The CIA had nothing to do with the revolution of dignity, which was a grassroots protest movement or Ukraines government voting to remove the president after he abandoned the country.

Also Ukraine has had 2 fair and free elections since then (Zelensky beat the incumbent by a landslide) unlike Russia or the parts of the country unfortunate enough to be under their control.

A coup was actually carried out by Russia in crimea. An actual coop where Russian soldiers surrounded the local government at gunpoint

> one that treated ethnic minorities within the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine about the same way that the ATF treated the Branch Davidians.

This is false and shows you have no knowledge of Ukraine or Russia. Zelensky is from a minority group(Jewish) and is a native Russian speaker the current head of the army is an ethnic russian born in Russia.

That's not to mention how Russia treats ethnic minorities or even ethnic Russians in territories they capture

> This is context that is part and parcel of understanding why Putin invaded, which is key if we wish to avoid the suffering, death, and devastation of war in the future.

He invaded because he's an imperialist. It's pretty simple

> All of that loss is for nothing if society does not learn the painful lessons in diplomacy it desperately needed that might have prevented the war.

You're imagining this was Americas fault. The only thing America could have done differently to prevent the war was if they somehow agreed to defend Ukraine or get all NATO members to agree to let them join.

[shwouchk]

way behind the curve, and it still works plenty well both on this site as well as, very recently, to a comcast agent.

[koiueo]

> the exceptions form the vast majorit

If majority opposed the war, it would be shameful to support it in public.

Think about it. Autocracy argument here is not relevant: you are not punished for being silent. But if you knew all the neighbors around you oppose something, you'd be ashamed to support it publicly. People are social creatures, and the fear of being rejected by your kind is deeply ingrained in everyone.

Yet, we see people with their real names and pictures support the war on social media. We see kids in Z swag on the streets. We see people signing up and participating in stealing/rapping/torturing/murdering. If the majority opposes the war, then how come over 1 million already willingly signed up? They were not forced. Aren't they afraid of being judged by their neighbors? Are those 1 million sociopaths? Just statistically this doesn't add up.

So yeah, I'd suggest you drop your silly LLM argument, and go outside your bubble (I conclude you are in russia).

[Ray20]

>Yet, we see people with their real names and pictures support the war on social media.

Mostly bots, minor officials, public sector employees and their relatives (they are forced to publish pro-war materials on their and their relatives social media under the threat of losing their jobs)

>If the majority opposes the war, then how come over 1 million already willingly signed up?

That's less than 1 percent. And keep in mind that to get that one percent, they are paid about 20x the average region salary every month.

>and go outside your bubble

Judging by your arguments, you are not in a bubble, you are directly broadcasting Putin's propaganda about popular support. And this is at a time when, to get his agenda in media, Putin has to sentence people to real prison terms not even for posts with condemnation of war on social media, but even for likes under such posts.