[anonym29]

New insult unlocked: indirectly suggest my debate partner's arguments are so simplistic and low-quality that they must be generated by an LLM, which I attempt to exploit with a simple jailbreak.

Love it. Stealing this. Thank you.

[koiueo]

It was in fashion quite long ago on Twitter, after people broke real russian propaganda bots with this (you know, the ones who posed as Americans or Europeans supporting russia, etc.).

You're behind the curve.

[anonym29]

Interesting, I'd never heard of this. Anecdotally, I happen to be an American who's very understanding of Russia's response to the the Euromaidan protests in 2014, in which the CIA more or less staged a Jan 6th in Ukraine to coup the legitimately elected government and install what was functionally a US puppet government - one that treated ethnic minorities within the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine about the same way that the ATF treated the Branch Davidians. This is context that is part and parcel of understanding why Putin invaded, which is key if we wish to avoid the suffering, death, and devastation of war in the future. All of that loss is for nothing if society does not learn the painful lessons in diplomacy it desperately needed that might have prevented the war.

I'm not stating that Russia is justified, nor am I suggesting that you should believe them to be.

It's an ugly response with deadly ramifications to an ugly first move with deadly ramifications made by the US government.

This isn't out of character for the US government either, to be clear. The CIA is the premier global expert on covert, astroturfed regime change, after all. Even though we're getting worse at forcing our way of life on foreign populations (Afghanistan, Vietnam), that doesn't negate the dozens of success stories across decades the CIA has under their belt, from the fruit wars in central and south America to illegitimate shahs in Iran... American imperialism is never hard to find.

[mopsi]

None of this is true. Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president with strong Russian backing, torpedoed a highly beneficial EU-Ukrainian trade deal under last-minute Russian pressure[1]. Ukrainian youth, who had the most to win from increased trade, employment and studying opportunities, staged a series of mass protest[2]. Yanukovych responded with gradual increase of violence, starting with hired thugs[3] attacking protesters, and culminating with police snipers killing 108 protesters on/around 20 February 2014[4]. That was such a shock that Yanukovych lost all political footing in Ukraine overnight. As he was about to get arrested and criminally tried, he went into hiding. After he was officially declared a wanted fugitive[5], Russian secret services evacuated him to Russia. The very next day after the wave of violence, on 21 February 2014, the Ukrainian parliament assembled and voted unanimously with 328-vs-0 to hold snap elections to find a replacement. Not even a single representative of his own party opposed this. The elections were held on 25 May 2014[6] and the results were recognized by everyone, even by Russia[7].

Calling this chain of events a "CIA coup" is an indication of baffling ignorance of the actual facts. Whoever gave you this "understanding" blatantly lied to you.

[1] https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2013-11-27/ukr...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

[5] https://www.kyivpost.com/post/9002

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_presidential_el...

[7] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27542057

[ossobuco]

> Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president with strong Russian backing, torpedoed a highly beneficial EU-Ukrainian trade deal under last-minute Russian pressure

Several EU countries torpedoed a highly beneficial China-EU trade deal under last-minute USA pressure. Time for a euro maidan?

[taurknaut]

Bro you found the most biased news sources on the planet. How about you cite the financial times if this is so clear?

I don't see any evidence that the CIA counciled Ukraine to avoid war. I see a lot of evidence that they'd push for exactly the opposite. Even if they didn't meddle (which is straight unbelievable), they're cackling with happiness that their buffer state went to war.

[rat87]

Why would the CIA council things? It would be president and state department.

If we're talking about the Revolution of Dignity the EU and US sadly didn't care that much and generally advised the opposition to try to compromise with Yanukovych. It was Yanukovych himself who decided to flee and Putin who decided to invade in 2014.

And Ukraine didn't go to war, Russia was the one who invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was merely defending itself. Ukraine tried to find a way to avoid the war, Russia was not interested.

Do you think Putin is a US puppet?

In 2022 Biden repeatedly pointed out that the planned full scale invasion was an even worse even stupider idea. Putin invaded anyway.

[taurknaut]

> Why would the CIA council things? It would be president and state department.

The CIA absolutely counciled ukraine. Why would you think otherwise? This is precisely the CIA wheelhouse.

[AlexeyBelov]

Alright, Mr. Unbiased 18 day old account. Lol. Lmao, even.

[taurknaut]

Gee let's consider here why nobody trusts the cia.

Anyone who says otherwise is either trying to get along with another american or is simply retarded. But I repeat myself. We americans are not a terribly skeptical people and absolutely deserve what we get. Morons. Why bother complaining about fascism if we don't even bother to tear down obviously evil structures like the cia? What is the goddamn point?

[rat87]

> in which the CIA more or less staged a Jan 6th in Ukraine to coup the legitimately elected government and install what was functionally a US puppet government

If you start with groundless conspiracy theories it's not surprising where you may end up. The CIA had nothing to do with the revolution of dignity, which was a grassroots protest movement or Ukraines government voting to remove the president after he abandoned the country.

Also Ukraine has had 2 fair and free elections since then (Zelensky beat the incumbent by a landslide) unlike Russia or the parts of the country unfortunate enough to be under their control.

A coup was actually carried out by Russia in crimea. An actual coop where Russian soldiers surrounded the local government at gunpoint

> one that treated ethnic minorities within the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine about the same way that the ATF treated the Branch Davidians.

This is false and shows you have no knowledge of Ukraine or Russia. Zelensky is from a minority group(Jewish) and is a native Russian speaker the current head of the army is an ethnic russian born in Russia.

That's not to mention how Russia treats ethnic minorities or even ethnic Russians in territories they capture

> This is context that is part and parcel of understanding why Putin invaded, which is key if we wish to avoid the suffering, death, and devastation of war in the future.

He invaded because he's an imperialist. It's pretty simple

> All of that loss is for nothing if society does not learn the painful lessons in diplomacy it desperately needed that might have prevented the war.

You're imagining this was Americas fault. The only thing America could have done differently to prevent the war was if they somehow agreed to defend Ukraine or get all NATO members to agree to let them join.

[shwouchk]

way behind the curve, and it still works plenty well both on this site as well as, very recently, to a comcast agent.