[hn_throwaway_99]

I'm curious if what is happening in the US and what has happened in Britain with Brexit actually ends up slowing some of these marches towards illiberalism in other places. Like when people are upset at the direction of a country or current policies, they may take a "throw the bums out" attitude even if the alternative is far worse. But perhaps they're looking at the complete shit show in the US and how unproductive Brexit was and are thinking "OK, maybe not like that..."

I mean, it sounds like Canada is more united than it's been in a long time in its shared opposition to Trump.

[CalRobert]

Unfortunately, one key difference is that Britain didn't have a leader who wanted to expand their territory.

Europe is already weak, economically and militarily. I don't know how long our votes will matter when we have a belligerent and powerful neighbour.

[ok_dad]

Ask Hawaii what happened when a bunch of businessmen wanted more profits and less government oversight! Back then it was Dole (the PERSON) and sugarcane companies, today it is auto manufacturers and probably access to the northern sea route that is rapidly becoming de-iced and relevant for shipping to bypass the Panama Canal. Canada better take this threat seriously and treat the USA, at the very least, like a neighbor who is shooting a rifle at a massive tank of propane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887_Constitution_of_the_Hawai...

[CalRobert]

Oh I know, I think Elon wants nothing less than to be emperor of the world.

[littlestymaar]

In France at least, Brexit made the idea of leaving the EU obsolete in political discourse, both on the left and far right.

But at the same time French media just repeated the “it's a clumsy handwave from an autistic dude” narrative after Musk's Nazi salute so I'm not sure it will work this time.

[throw310822]

Notice that this benevolence and protection by the media is granted to Musk (and Trump) by their complete subservience to Israel's demands and wants. Trump just proposed ethnic cleansing the Gaza Strip and cleaning up the rubble with American money and work so it can be handed over to Israel in a nice shape.

[defrost]

I suspect a large part of the subtext is that considerable real estate holdings, hotels, casinos, apartments, etc. will mysteriously end up slightly off book on some TrumpCo. spinoff or another.

It's the new Riviera after all . . .

[throw310822]

No, that's missing the point. What hotels, casinos and apartments were promised to the Biden administration to flood Israel with money and weapons to flatten the Gaza strip into rubble and kill and maim hundreds of thousands?

It's not important what leverage Israel has used to make yet another US president do exactly what they want, contrary to any idea of justice, international law, basic humanity and common sense. The point is that Israel has that kind of leverage and nobody is able to resist it.

[littlestymaar]

As much as I hate the Nazis at the top of Israel's government and Western complicity in the ethnic cleansing occurring in Gaza (and more recently the West Bank too), I find your statement disturbing.

Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel. French media were pretty critical of Joe Bidden being too old for the job, despite Bidden giving Netanyahu all he wanted.

Edit: OK given that other response of yours in this thread[1], it's quite clear now that you're confusing the fight for the freedom of Palestinians and the hatred of Jews.

In addition to being disgusting, Antisemitic talks like these are actually counter productive: they help the Israelis as it gives them an excuse to victimize themselves once again.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42945588

[throw310822]

> Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel

Netanyahu himself tweeted in support of Elon Musk after his nazi-like salute. This is obviously about Israel.

> it's quite clear now that you're confusing the fight for the freedom of Palestinians and the hatred of Jews

I didn't mention Jews, you are the one confusing Jews and Israel. There are many Jews who are vehement opponents of Israel's nazi government and are denouncing it and its influence on American politics anywhere they can.

[littlestymaar]

You are claiming that Israel has “irresistible leverage” over American presidents, so you're gonna need a lot of clarification to who that this isn't an antisemitic dog whistle. What exactly do you think this leverage is?

[throw310822]

No I don't owe any clarification to support what is obvious. At this point, the fact that Israel has almost complete control of US politics is the null hypothesis. It's those who deny it that need to provide very convincing, non-handwavy, alternative explanations of why the US is constantly doing Israel's bidding against international law, the international community and basic human rights, damaging its own standing and authority and going against its own geopolitical interest. And why the representatives of US people fly the Israeli flag outside and inside their offices, and why AIPAC boasts to manage to get elected 95% of those it supports, and why such a foreign interference is even allowed in the country, etc. etc.

[ZeroGravitas]

In the UK, the political party (which is a actually a privately owned company) owned by the guy who drove the initial wave of Brexit is apparently topping the polls now.

The only policy they talk about is getting rid of all the immigrants because that's what caused all the problems, not decades of right wing government culminating in Brexit.

But underdeath that is the usual US-style Turbo capitalism stuff like destroying the NHS and handing it over to American corporations.

[dgb23]

Also not surprisingly immigration increased after Brexit. It has always been a wedge issue and a red herring for those in power.

[ben_w]

> In the UK, the political party (which is a actually a privately owned company) owned by the guy who drove the initial wave of Brexit is apparently topping the polls now.

Oh god. There I was thinking it couldn't get worse and hoping you'd made a mistake, but no, you're right, somehow it is.

[pjc50]

Reform is such a corporate op. It's so obviously astroturf .. but the media are also astroturfing it, because the hate for immigrants is universal.

[hn_throwaway_99]

Damn, you're right :( Thanks for killing my attempts at holding on to some threads of optimism! (Being sarcastic, but really I'm just laugh/crying). Oh well, guess I should just stock up on more boxed wine...

[girvo]

The right wing party will take power in Australia shortly too, for similar idiotic reasons.

[morkalork]

I don't think it changes anything on a base level for how humans behave en mass. Unfortunately it looks like we will always be susceptible to populism and propaganda. At best what you're seeing is a temporary inoculation against illibralism.

[pjc50]

Wait until you have the Liz Truss budget. That's going to be economic chaos.