[littlestymaar]

In France at least, Brexit made the idea of leaving the EU obsolete in political discourse, both on the left and far right.

But at the same time French media just repeated the “it's a clumsy handwave from an autistic dude” narrative after Musk's Nazi salute so I'm not sure it will work this time.

[throw310822]

Notice that this benevolence and protection by the media is granted to Musk (and Trump) by their complete subservience to Israel's demands and wants. Trump just proposed ethnic cleansing the Gaza Strip and cleaning up the rubble with American money and work so it can be handed over to Israel in a nice shape.

[defrost]

I suspect a large part of the subtext is that considerable real estate holdings, hotels, casinos, apartments, etc. will mysteriously end up slightly off book on some TrumpCo. spinoff or another.

It's the new Riviera after all . . .

[throw310822]

No, that's missing the point. What hotels, casinos and apartments were promised to the Biden administration to flood Israel with money and weapons to flatten the Gaza strip into rubble and kill and maim hundreds of thousands?

It's not important what leverage Israel has used to make yet another US president do exactly what they want, contrary to any idea of justice, international law, basic humanity and common sense. The point is that Israel has that kind of leverage and nobody is able to resist it.

[littlestymaar]

As much as I hate the Nazis at the top of Israel's government and Western complicity in the ethnic cleansing occurring in Gaza (and more recently the West Bank too), I find your statement disturbing.

Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel. French media were pretty critical of Joe Bidden being too old for the job, despite Bidden giving Netanyahu all he wanted.

Edit: OK given that other response of yours in this thread[1], it's quite clear now that you're confusing the fight for the freedom of Palestinians and the hatred of Jews.

In addition to being disgusting, Antisemitic talks like these are actually counter productive: they help the Israelis as it gives them an excuse to victimize themselves once again.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42945588

[throw310822]

> Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel

Netanyahu himself tweeted in support of Elon Musk after his nazi-like salute. This is obviously about Israel.

> it's quite clear now that you're confusing the fight for the freedom of Palestinians and the hatred of Jews

I didn't mention Jews, you are the one confusing Jews and Israel. There are many Jews who are vehement opponents of Israel's nazi government and are denouncing it and its influence on American politics anywhere they can.

[littlestymaar]

You are claiming that Israel has “irresistible leverage” over American presidents, so you're gonna need a lot of clarification to who that this isn't an antisemitic dog whistle. What exactly do you think this leverage is?

[throw310822]

No I don't owe any clarification to support what is obvious. At this point, the fact that Israel has almost complete control of US politics is the null hypothesis. It's those who deny it that need to provide very convincing, non-handwavy, alternative explanations of why the US is constantly doing Israel's bidding against international law, the international community and basic human rights, damaging its own standing and authority and going against its own geopolitical interest. And why the representatives of US people fly the Israeli flag outside and inside their offices, and why AIPAC boasts to manage to get elected 95% of those it supports, and why such a foreign interference is even allowed in the country, etc. etc.

[littlestymaar]

You're confusing: “the US has geopolitical interest in the middle East that are fully aligned with Isreal” and “Israel controls the US politics”.

Both have the same visible symptoms, but the causal explanation is different. I can write an essay on the former, you cannot give an explanation of "how" Israel is supposed to control the US (that isn't a conspiracy theory about the Jews, that is), that's the problem.

If you want to change my mind, that's easy, just explain how, by which lever, does Israel controls the US. Not the symptoms like you did, but the phenomenon itself as you think it exits.