[csa]

> The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

At this point, almost certainly the former.

1. Most Trump supporters do not think that there is a problem.

2. “Regular people” — that is, the folks who don’t track news — won’t notice any problems in their day-to-day lives until after said shakedown has been completed.

The only way large swathes of people will demand action is if they are hit hard in the wallets in an immediate and clear way (e.g., rapid price increases to one or more critical goods or services) or if a critical process (e.g., social security checks) gets disrupted. I’m not sure the current types of changes will reach that level.

[robbiewxyz]

From what I gather, life for most of these "regular people" in Germany was still very much in the tolerable range until well into WWII.

This was a very weird realization and one that left me pretty sad.

Edit to clarify: I also mean no condescension toward "regular people".

[csa]

> From what I gather, life for most of these "regular people" types in Germany was still very much in the tolerable range until well into WWII.

Correct.

I’ve heard some harrowing stories about the moment of realization straight from the mouths of some of these people.

Edit: To be clear, I’m referring to my family and their friends who lived through it.

[pizlonator]

> I’ve heard some harrowing stories about the moment of realization straight from the mouths of some of these people.

I’d love to know more.

[csa]

> I’d love to know more.

Probably not news, but here are a few big ones that I remember from our conversations:

1. Family member lived in a rural area. They could see the train line that ran between two major cities. I can’t remember the exact order of events (e.g., construction), but at some point they noticed packed trains turning off the main tracks to go to a facility. Packed trains went in, and empty trains came out. At first they didn’t think anything of it… just resettlement stuff or war stuff or whatever. But then it continued. And continued. The rumors started. Everything was hush hush. Nobody dared to ask the authorities. Only later did they learn that it was a concentration camp and what actually happened there. That one kind of blew my mind… they had no idea about what was going on except vague rumors, most of which were wrong.

2. One family member had access to privileged information about the war (in the later stages of the war). One bit of info they knew was about causalities, and how certain assignments were less survivable than others. The propaganda machine made it seem like it was noble to go fight the war that would inevitably be won, but this person knew with a reasonable degree of mathematical estimation that some of the kids being sent off weren’t likely to come back. They said it was tough to look those parents, especially mothers, in the eyes when they made some comment about hoping their kid came home safely. My family member knew that these parents would likely never see their son again, and all for what was looking like a lost and/or questionable war effort that was still playing on nationalist sentiments.

3. This really isn’t that interesting, but… The propaganda late in the war made it seem like Germans in general and the troops specifically were eating well with an abundance of good food, while people who actually grew the food had to do things like use sawdust and straw as filler in their bread. They had a long list of accommodations that they told me that they made so that they didn’t feel hungry, and I don’t remember them all. The cool thing is that there were ways for the rural folks to get access to food beyond the rations. Sometimes they could sneak some extra food to the city-dwelling family members, but the folks in the cities seemed to have it tougher. They were sort of bitter about how the food situation got progressively worse as the war progressed as well as the total disconnect from reality that the propaganda was presenting.

Note that these were stories that were told to me decades ago about stuff that had happened many decades before then. I’m sure that some stories were embellished while others were muted. I’m also sure that some of the details were “lost in translation” — either via my mediocre German, their mediocre English, or the limits of language assistance that some of the bilingual folks provided.

I don’t really feel like I did these stories justice.

[jventura]

Almost 80 years has passed, some details get lost, but it is important to keep things like that alive in our consciousnesses. Even if you didn't to justice to those stories, I still read them with attention. Thanks for them!

[csa]

Thank you for the kind words.

I just remember feeling like I had been punched in the gut after some of these conversations. It was like history had come alive right before my eyes.

I remember having a few sleepless nights just processing the things I had been told.

I remember almost throwing up once (the night after the story about the trains). I just couldn’t believe the level of depravity was so easily able to exist with basically no questions asked.

I remember my naive younger self thinking about what I would have done had I been in their shoes. It didn’t take me long to realize that I probably wouldn’t have done much differently, mainly because their range of options were so limited (or at least perceived to be so, with detention, death, or “disappearing”being the consequence if you were wrong).

I also remember them talking about neighbors snitching on each other (probably to the gestapo, but it could have been another entity). Some neighbors with petty intentions would make up false claims about neighbors they didn’t like. This forced everyone to be on “perfect behavior”, and it sowed a lot of distrust in normally tight-knit communities. There was one story about a tattle-tale who had a come-uppance, but I can’t remember any of the details. I think that was the first time the word Schadenfreude came alive to me… it existed in that story on multiple levels.

[pizlonator]

Thank you for sharing!

[csa]

You’re welcome.

There a little more commentary in a reply above to jventura.

[kenjackson]

The old quote, "first they came for ..." was written by a Nazi sympathizer -- until he was in jail by them. It's rooted in truth how it played out to him.

"First they came for DEI and I didn't speak out, because I was not Black..."

[palmfacehn]

And what of those who speak out against it because they find it belittling personally? What of those who do not want to be included as a token or talisman, but would rather participate based upon their qualifications and merits? Are we allowed to speak out and have differing opinions on DEI or will you compare us to National Socialism collaborators?

[kenjackson]

Do white people feel like tokens because the merit of other people isn’t considered?

DEI makes sure that everyone is part of the merit process.

It’s like how white people feel like Babe Ruth is an all time great, but say Josh Gibson isn’t because he played in the all black league. But playing in the all white league doesn’t count against you at all. No one considers them any less.

[alienthrowaway]

> What of those who do not want to be included as a token or talisman, but would rather participate based upon their qualifications and merits?

There were plenty of companies like Coinbase that ignored DEI initiatives and requested that employees leave "politics at the door" - and we all knew what kind of politics they meant. You could have voted with your feet.

I'm fully onboard with employees asking employees to be respectful to their colleagues regardless of gender, race, creed or color, that's just good for business.

[palmfacehn]

> You could have voted with your feet.

I have voted with my feet by avoiding the self-announced inclusive. My objection is specific to reducto-ad-hitlerum.

[nerdponx]

I don't know why you're being downvoted.

> 1. Most Trump supporters do not think that there is a problem.

Talk to any conservative -- even people who are/were skeptical of Trump -- or browse any conservative-leaning social media. It's clear that the people who voted for Trump fully understood what they voted for: they wanted what's happening. Project 2025 is a good thing in the eyes of many. Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful, but in the eyes of literally millions of Americans, it's a means to a well-justified and long-awaited end.

[WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW]

> Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful

They believe it has already been politicized by people who hate them.

[nerdponx]

That's a great point as well. "They've been doing it to us for decades, what's happening now isn't any worse".

The Project 2025 document is really interesting along those lines as well. It's close to 1000 pages, but you can skim pretty much any section that isn't about the military and get the idea. Politicizing the executive branch is an explicitly stated goal, over and over. And furthermore, the push to disband the department of education is specifically an overly political, not because it's ineffective in its mission, but because it's "a one-stop shop for the woke education cartel" -- and yes that is a direct quote.

[csa]

> Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful, but in the eyes of literally millions of Americans, it's a means to a well-justified and long-awaited end.

This is a very tight and succinct summary of many conversations I’ve had with conservative family and acquaintances.

> I don't know why you're being downvoted.

The votes on my comment are going up and down like a yo-yo.

I’m pretty sure it’s because I used the term “regular people”, and I used it in quotes. I get the sense that some people are reading more into that phrase than I intended.

[leptons]

One thing conservatives are famously not good at is anticipating the consequences of their actions. What could possibly go wrong with immediately deporting all the people who harvest our crops?

[DecoySalamander]

But what if they are replaced by government workers who are made redundant? It might just balance out.

[leptons]

I'm not sure how a person working a desk job for the government suddenly being told to work long hours in hot fields picking crops is going to work out. And if you hadn't noticed, most people working for the government don't live in the middle of farmlands or anywhere near them. I'm not sure how you can think this could work out at all.

Your comment also tells me that this was never about immigrants taking our jobs.

You seem to be living in a right-wing fantasy world that really doesn't exist. Things are going to get really bad in the country with this administration, the first two weeks have been extremely messy. No, these policies are definitely not going to lower the price of anything - we're on track for wild inflation with these plans. The leopards are going to be well fed though!

[thinkingtoilet]

These "regular people" that you seem to condescendingly speak about absolutely notice it at the pump and at the grocery store. They aren't mindless robots.

[csa]

> These "regular people" that you seem to condescendingly speak about

There was zero condescension in my tone or intent.

I put “regular people” in quotes simply because I think most people who do follow the news absolutely don’t realize that the vast majority of people don’t.

A simple litmus test for this is to ask random people you meet outside of your personal social and professional circles (e.g., the front desk person at the gym, a cashier at a grocery store, a rideshare driver… whatever) a simple question like “Who are our US senators?” or “What is the NIH?” I’ve done this, and the sentiment was largely “don’t know, don’t care”.

This isn’t a criticism. It’s just an observation that some issues that some folks on HN care about (e.g., details about how lesser known parts of the government function — for example, what’s happening at the NIH and NSF) just aren’t on the radar for large swathes of the population.

> absolutely notice it at the pump and at the grocery store. They aren't mindless robots.

I think we agree on this, right?

And my point is that price changes for most things won’t hit immediately.

1. There have been delays in most of the tariffs.

2. The impact of some tariffs will take longer to hit than others. Fresh food will be fast. Goods with longer shelf lives canned goods, alcohol, and prepared foods might take a while.

[nyc_data_geek1]

If your engagement with politics, civics and public policy begins and ends with how much groceries and gas cost, then you are the perfect consumer, and something less than a thinking, rational human with agency and awareness. What is a human without curiosity or critical thinking, but a biological consuming robot? Which incidentally is what the new department of education will try to create a population of, by destroying public education.

Edit: Scratch that, they plan to abolish the department of education

[jcgrillo]

Thank you for writing this in such a polite and erudite manner. You saved me from posting an obscenity laden ad hominem.

[dionian]

Don't states have their own DOE?

[alienthrowaway]

States also have their national guardsmen, does that mean it's a good idea to disband the army?

[philjohn]

Yes - and states actually control much of the curriculum.

However, the DOE does things like make sure there is funding for children with additional needs, which lets be honest, are not going to be replicated in certain states if the DOE is indeed disbanded.

[nyc_data_geek1]

Does this mean there is no value in maintaining federal education standards, or do we want to let states decide if they want to abolish theirs as well?

[TylerE]

Boy are those folks gonna get what they voted for…

Price of eggs dropped yet?

[technothrasher]

I just had a follow up conversation with a lady at work who had said she was voting for Trump because things like eggs were too expensive. Her comment about egg prices now was that she didn't understand why liberals were saddling Trump with egg prices, because the president can't control things like that. She literally did a complete 180 on the topic seemingly without any self awareness. I don't know how to reach people like that. I honestly don't.

[nyc_data_geek1]

I fear there is no reaching some.

Orwell wrote about this in 1984 (and also, incidentally, fought fascists on the ground during the Spanish Civil War):

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink."

[spacemanspiff01]

I am moving all of my assets to cash. Maybe no one else cares, but I do, and I would rather invest in a functional democracy.

Never know, if enough people divest , people might give a shit.

But I'm not holding my breath.