[robbiewxyz]

From what I gather, life for most of these "regular people" in Germany was still very much in the tolerable range until well into WWII.

This was a very weird realization and one that left me pretty sad.

Edit to clarify: I also mean no condescension toward "regular people".

[csa]

> From what I gather, life for most of these "regular people" types in Germany was still very much in the tolerable range until well into WWII.

Correct.

I’ve heard some harrowing stories about the moment of realization straight from the mouths of some of these people.

Edit: To be clear, I’m referring to my family and their friends who lived through it.

[pizlonator]

> I’ve heard some harrowing stories about the moment of realization straight from the mouths of some of these people.

I’d love to know more.

[csa]

> I’d love to know more.

Probably not news, but here are a few big ones that I remember from our conversations:

1. Family member lived in a rural area. They could see the train line that ran between two major cities. I can’t remember the exact order of events (e.g., construction), but at some point they noticed packed trains turning off the main tracks to go to a facility. Packed trains went in, and empty trains came out. At first they didn’t think anything of it… just resettlement stuff or war stuff or whatever. But then it continued. And continued. The rumors started. Everything was hush hush. Nobody dared to ask the authorities. Only later did they learn that it was a concentration camp and what actually happened there. That one kind of blew my mind… they had no idea about what was going on except vague rumors, most of which were wrong.

2. One family member had access to privileged information about the war (in the later stages of the war). One bit of info they knew was about causalities, and how certain assignments were less survivable than others. The propaganda machine made it seem like it was noble to go fight the war that would inevitably be won, but this person knew with a reasonable degree of mathematical estimation that some of the kids being sent off weren’t likely to come back. They said it was tough to look those parents, especially mothers, in the eyes when they made some comment about hoping their kid came home safely. My family member knew that these parents would likely never see their son again, and all for what was looking like a lost and/or questionable war effort that was still playing on nationalist sentiments.

3. This really isn’t that interesting, but… The propaganda late in the war made it seem like Germans in general and the troops specifically were eating well with an abundance of good food, while people who actually grew the food had to do things like use sawdust and straw as filler in their bread. They had a long list of accommodations that they told me that they made so that they didn’t feel hungry, and I don’t remember them all. The cool thing is that there were ways for the rural folks to get access to food beyond the rations. Sometimes they could sneak some extra food to the city-dwelling family members, but the folks in the cities seemed to have it tougher. They were sort of bitter about how the food situation got progressively worse as the war progressed as well as the total disconnect from reality that the propaganda was presenting.

Note that these were stories that were told to me decades ago about stuff that had happened many decades before then. I’m sure that some stories were embellished while others were muted. I’m also sure that some of the details were “lost in translation” — either via my mediocre German, their mediocre English, or the limits of language assistance that some of the bilingual folks provided.

I don’t really feel like I did these stories justice.

[jventura]

Almost 80 years has passed, some details get lost, but it is important to keep things like that alive in our consciousnesses. Even if you didn't to justice to those stories, I still read them with attention. Thanks for them!

[csa]

Thank you for the kind words.

I just remember feeling like I had been punched in the gut after some of these conversations. It was like history had come alive right before my eyes.

I remember having a few sleepless nights just processing the things I had been told.

I remember almost throwing up once (the night after the story about the trains). I just couldn’t believe the level of depravity was so easily able to exist with basically no questions asked.

I remember my naive younger self thinking about what I would have done had I been in their shoes. It didn’t take me long to realize that I probably wouldn’t have done much differently, mainly because their range of options were so limited (or at least perceived to be so, with detention, death, or “disappearing”being the consequence if you were wrong).

I also remember them talking about neighbors snitching on each other (probably to the gestapo, but it could have been another entity). Some neighbors with petty intentions would make up false claims about neighbors they didn’t like. This forced everyone to be on “perfect behavior”, and it sowed a lot of distrust in normally tight-knit communities. There was one story about a tattle-tale who had a come-uppance, but I can’t remember any of the details. I think that was the first time the word Schadenfreude came alive to me… it existed in that story on multiple levels.

[pizlonator]

Thank you for sharing!

[csa]

You’re welcome.

There a little more commentary in a reply above to jventura.

[kenjackson]

The old quote, "first they came for ..." was written by a Nazi sympathizer -- until he was in jail by them. It's rooted in truth how it played out to him.

"First they came for DEI and I didn't speak out, because I was not Black..."

[palmfacehn]

And what of those who speak out against it because they find it belittling personally? What of those who do not want to be included as a token or talisman, but would rather participate based upon their qualifications and merits? Are we allowed to speak out and have differing opinions on DEI or will you compare us to National Socialism collaborators?

[kenjackson]

Do white people feel like tokens because the merit of other people isn’t considered?

DEI makes sure that everyone is part of the merit process.

It’s like how white people feel like Babe Ruth is an all time great, but say Josh Gibson isn’t because he played in the all black league. But playing in the all white league doesn’t count against you at all. No one considers them any less.

[alienthrowaway]

> What of those who do not want to be included as a token or talisman, but would rather participate based upon their qualifications and merits?

There were plenty of companies like Coinbase that ignored DEI initiatives and requested that employees leave "politics at the door" - and we all knew what kind of politics they meant. You could have voted with your feet.

I'm fully onboard with employees asking employees to be respectful to their colleagues regardless of gender, race, creed or color, that's just good for business.

[palmfacehn]

> You could have voted with your feet.

I have voted with my feet by avoiding the self-announced inclusive. My objection is specific to reducto-ad-hitlerum.