[nightowl_games]

Yes, the USA has massive leverage over Canada on basically every front. We are a small child standing next to a massive person with a gun. But what is the point of destroying us?

Our economy is already down. All of our tech elite move to Silicon Valley. Our energy infrastructure cant get off the ground. The USA dictates so much of what Canada is able to do.

What is the point of squeezing us more? We have so little we can offer you.

We've already given you the lives of our soldiers as we follow you into pointless wars. What more do you want? The pennies in our pockets?

[ModernMech]

> What more do you want? The pennies in our pockets?

Pretty much yeah. US wants to tax you, subject you to their religious laws, and take your oil. What are you willing to do about it?

[ygjb]

We are hoping the electorate in the US doesn't want to find out. US leadership has threatened Canada and other countries with using economic or military force for annexation. Canadians are hoping that saner heads will prevail, but it's not looking very good. We are very much aware that our military has been underserved in every way by Canadians, and that was part of the reason I chose not to continue my military career.

In the meantime, we are carefully and cautiously reminding the United States that we fought many of the same wars and learned the same lessons as the US military about how insurgencies are fought, and while many of our friends, family, and neighbours are American, we are not, and do not want to, and will not be American. Do with that what you will.

[toomuchtodo]

US electorate must find out. You can only negotiate with rational people. Retaliatory tariffs are mandatory, at a minimum.

[ty6853]

Retaliatory tariff why? US tariff are self inflicted harm. If you see your neighbor slashing their wrists, slashing your own doesn't improve the situation. Canadian taxpayers will be the ones eating that cost.

[toomuchtodo]

> Their strategy is to make sure Americans feel the pain too. But they are likely to focus on what experts call precision strikes against U.S. exports from Republican strongholds and industry groups with political leverage in Washington.

> Late Saturday, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said his country would impose 25% tariffs on more than $105 billion of U.S. goods. “We didn’t ask for this, but we will not back down,” he said, warning that American jobs in their auto and manufacturing industries were at risk.

> A first wave, set to take effect Tuesday, will hit $20 billion of imports from the U.S., including alcohol, coffee, clothing and shoes, furniture and household appliances. On Sunday, Canada released a list of tariff targets, including products from Republican-leaning states, such as whiskeys from Kentucky, oranges from Florida and appliances from South Carolina. Government officials on Sunday also said they were targeting motorcycles in Pennsylvania, which has a Harley-Davidson plant in York, Pa.

> A second wave on an additional $85 billion of goods would include tariffs on cars and trucks, agricultural products, steel and aluminum and aerospace products. The second phase will begin in three weeks, to give businesses enough time to stockpile and find alternatives.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/canada-mexico-want-america... | https://archive.today/WRDZt

[ty6853]

Those are all taxes on Canadian consumers.

The only reason America will feel significant pain from our own tariffs on Canada is because without it, the tariffs on Mexico are voided as Canada has free trade agreement with mex that would make black market proxying through Canada trivial. I suspect that's what this is really about, Canada has to be in lockstep or themselves tariffed for the Mexico tariffs to be persuasive upon Mexico. Otherwise cartels just route white market goods to Canada under shell companies and then to us at no tariff.

The Canadians should find some other way to punish us than cutting off their nose to spite their face imo. A tariff is totally unpersuasive especially in light of the comparative trade dynamics.

[dinkumthinkum]

I think Canadians are more likely to find themselves in a situation in which all of their land is owned by Chinese and other foreign interests than an occupation by the U.S. that requires "insurgents", and it seems like they are happy to do it.

[ModernMech]

I fear that in hoping cooler heads will prevail, you've only set yourself up for failure. Trump and Musk will take advantage of your willingness to see them as better than what they are. That's how they win. Just remember they are doing Nazis salutes and setting up a concentration camp in Cuba. There are no more cooler heads.

[dinkumthinkum]

Well, that's nonsense. No one is doing "Nazi salutes" nor setting up concentration camps. I mean if the ADL say it was not such a salute, methinks thou doth protest too much. As far as concentration camps, this is just leftist hyperbole. Visit Germany and Poland go see what real such things were like, this is more offensive to those victims of atrocities then the made up things you are referencing.

[ModernMech]

Musk literally did a Nazi salute behind the presidential seal. And Trump announced concentration camps at Guantanamo Bay, so you're wrong there as well. I'm not getting my news from leftists, I'm getting it from the two co-presidents. You just have to watch what they do and say in public to come to these conclusions.

[dinkumthinkum]

Again, the ADL literally said it was not such a salute. Also, those are not concentration camps of the kind of Nazi Germany. This is highly offensive to those that suffered in the holocaust to conflate these things.

[nightowl_games]

> What are you willing to do about it?

This is the vibe of a bully taking a kids lunch money and then saying 'What are you gonna do about it?'

I'll never forget this feeling. The world is watching.

[ModernMech]

That's exactly what it is.

The world is transitioning from a "rule of law" order to a "rule of jungle" order, where might makes right.

People who understand this will have an easier time in the new world order. The goal now is to make it through the inevitable war, and try to set up a better rule of law next time.

Canada is the first test. The way to handle America is to use the only language bullies know: force and strength. Never back down. Never give an inch. If Canada tries to negotiate, it's done. Whatever agreement is reached, America will renege, and Canada will lose.

[nightowl_games]

> force and strength

The problem is that the USA is capable of far more force and strength than Canada is. It's like an abusive relationship, but one where due to geography, Canada cannot simply leave.

[aborsy]

I blame Canadian leadership. There should have understood the risk long ago. There are other problems as well due to weak management.

The claim about drugs is a legal justification for the use of emergency power. Canada isn’t causing problems for US. These tariffs are harmful and unfair to Canada.

It makes you wonder what “ally” means with US.

[nightowl_games]

Sorry - what do you blame Canadian leadership for? What did they do?

[aborsy]

Canada’s leadership could have done better in the past decades (not that they are directly responsible for these tariffs).

* Canada funds and invents new technologies in early stages, but fails to commercialize them: AI, smartphones, pharmaceuticals, …

* Canada hasn’t introduce measures to retain its talent. It’s too easy to be trained in Canada and work in USA.

* Canada hasn’t diversified its trade. It exports around 80% of exports to a super power, putting itself in a vulnerable position.

* Canada’s economy focuses on natural resources, oil, finance and services. It should do a better job in more productive sectors (tech, manufacturing, etc).

* Canada’s immigration is insane.

* The housing crisis, inflation, reduced GDP per capita and productivity are the result of poor management.

* Canada should stay neutral with respect to internal politics of major powers. The power swings, and liberals should not speak ill of republicans.

* Canada should meet its NATO commitments. It contributes less than most members. It should think of defense.

* Canada’s universal healthcare system seems to me costly and hard to sustain, and needs to be reformed to lower public costs.

Thankfully, tariffs are delayed, and hopefully will not be slapped back.

[nightowl_games]

I agree with your points in general but I'm still confused - how do you connect any of these to the USA tariffs? I'm specifically asking you how you can justify this statement "I blame Canadian leadership [for the tariffs]."