[ixacto]

Change the genders and you see how fucking ridiculous it is. 'How we got 50 men to go to our [stereotypically female activity].

Have fun with stereotyping yourselves... "Feed People Well: Offer vegetarian-friendly options, salad, fruit, and wine in addition to the usual beer/pizza/redbull. We got at least a dozen thank-you’s specifically for having fruit with breakfast. Everyone likes healthy food – so why not go the extra mile?"

[jaems33]

There are so many other demographics in tech that are also under-represented. African American men. Latinos. Heck, even though Asians are highly represented in engineering/comp-sci at top tech schools in the U.S. very few are in leadership positions in major North American tech companies.

Every week on Twitter or HN I see great stories about people trying to advance women's presence in tech. I don't disagree with that movement at all. But I hear very few talking about the other subgroups in the male gender that may have obstacles from going into tech.

[stcredzero]

> African American men. Latinos. Heck, even though Asians are highly represented in engineering/comp-sci at top tech schools in the U.S. very few are in leadership positions in major North American tech companies.

There is something subtle going on here. Most likely multiple subtle things going on. Unfortunately, they are subtle enough that I have a hard time thinking of ways to gather empirical data concerning these things without breaking the law. For example, I have noticed that Asian men seem to be interrupted more often than white men in restaurants.

[jaems33]

Indeed. I've brought up this point numerous times yet no one (besides you) responds. It just seems easy to swath all men as having advantages over women when in fact, divided into subcultures one could argue certain demographics of men do suffer from numerous disadvantages over certain demographics of men and women.

[kaybe]

By whom are they interrupted?

[stcredzero]

The wait staff and by others at the table. I think there's a subconscious perceived status thing that just makes interruption less likely for "white" men. Granted, this is just my perception. Data would be good. I should probably search the social psychology literature.

[UnFleshedOne]

Interruption might be partly due to mismatch in visual cues. People look for non-verbal signs that a person stopped talking. Maybe those misfire because of cultural differences? If true, this should be especially pronounced in group conversations.

[stcredzero]

That's not all of it. There are clear interruptions of the person talking by the wait staff.

[roguecoder]

I have seen a few on Hacker's News but, like gender posts, they get flagged off the front page uber-quick.

The problem, and why I ignored your comment here to start with, is that you phrase is as "yes, but..." "Yes, that's bad, but why aren't you focusing on this totally different thing!?!" That's a form of derailing, especially when you suggest that those things are important because of how they affect men, rather than that both African-American men and women may face additional challenges entering our industry.

A positive way to engage in this specific effort, and thus not derail, might be to ask the organizer, "was there any difference in the demographics of this relative to other hackathons in terms of race? I am curious if the inclusiveness had any spillover effect."

That way, instead of changing the subject you are deepening your engagement with the topic at hand. If you would like people to instead stop talking about this post and talk about something different, you will probably have much better luck posting a different article where such conversations wouldn't be off-topic and derailing.

[fearfries]

well, these guys seem to be casting a pretty wide net for disenfranchised subgroups. Probably not a perfect solution, but...

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/23/156555402/silicon-valley-boot-...

[jaems33]

Thanks for the piece. Reading the comments made me cringe.

[MartinCron]

I don't see anything ridiculous to a post titled "How we got 50 men to go to our craft fair" or "How we got 50 men to our nursing career fair" or even "How we got 50 men to stop being sexist assholes".

[egillie]

Me neither. My high school offered college scholarships for men going into nursing, and I've seen posts in women-oriented boards about how to attract more men to events. It doesn't seem crazy at all...

[ahelwer]

Ah yes, the ol' gender swap trick. Because our culture exists in a vacuum, right?