[matrix87]

Once you're an adult, do you even need one in the first place?

I'm 24, I don't go to anyone for help pretty much ever, I just follow my own goals. That's gotten me way farther than most people I know

I don't think this talk about "male emotional support networks" is actually intended to help men, it's meant to infantilize them. They'd be better off just buying into the nietzschean "support yourself" type of worldview

[tommiegannert]

I don't know you, but respectfully, people didn't start dying in my life until I was in my mid-30s.

The most heartbreaking experience I've had was my 88 year old neighbor ringing the door, and informing me that his wife of 60 years had just died. He managed to say three words. Before the fourth, he broke down in tears.

My wife has died.

Such a simple sentence, but a sentence that had 60 years of unconditional love behind it. And an entire family. Their life. His wife was lovely. I miss her, and cannot even pretend to imagine what this was, and still is, like, for him.

Behind him, at my door, was my other neighbor. He was the first to have been told. He just stood there, silently, while I gave the husband a long hug. He never said a word, his mere presence saying everything that needed to be said.

You are not alone.

[iJohnDoe]

At 24 you’re simply too young and have been lucky to not realize that life throws your curveballs.

You might be offended by my comment, but you won’t as you get older.

As you get older you might look at your teens as still being a baby, twenties as still being a kid, early thirties as starting to learn a thing or two, mid-thirties with some life lessons, and forties as finally knowing some things.

[drdec]

You don't think you will want some support when a tragedy befalls you? A child or partner is hospitalized or dies? You develop a potentially terminal illness? A partner betrays you? Are you just going to "follow your goals" in these situations?

[matrix87]

> A child or partner is hospitalized or dies?

everyone processes grief differently

> You develop a potentially terminal illness?

I mean, I'm probably going to die anyway. At least if you're alone you don't have to worry about the trade off between extreme medical bills and a few more months of life vs leaving family more money

> A partner betrays you?

I don't really plan on marrying so I'd just replace them with someone else

In all of these situations, you can figure out ways to get through them alone

[drdec]

> In all of these situations, you can figure out ways to get through them alone

That is not the point.

The point is that an emotional support network will help you in these situations and suggesting that someone build one is not "infantilizing" them but giving them valuable tools.

I could care less if you find one personally valuable or not (I don't have trouble imagining that there are people for which they are not), but I object to your generalizations and implication that men who pursue them are somehow lesser.

[constantcrying]

How is "emotional support" going to help with any of that?

[drdec]

It's right in the name, it helps you handle and process your emotions.

[constantcrying]

I can do that on my own perfectly fine.

[drdec]

That's fine that it is not for you.

(Username does not check out)

[iJohnDoe]

Yes, holy crap that username is surprisingly ironic.

[jrgoff]

As a man in my mid-40s who has gradually become more aware of my emotions and the need I have for connection, I disagree. Of course I can't make claims about anyone else's needs or happiness, but for myself my life has been a lot better as I have built supportive friendships. I don't feel infantilized, I feel more able to have my needs met, be happier, work through blocks that are triggered by old wounds, etc. I feel more capable of living a satisfying life.

[watwut]

I think that this ideology is one of reasons why men get less emotional support and why many cant provide it. They cant provided because they don't want to, because they look down on people who want or need it. And consequently they cant really talk openly with other men, because they will look down at them.

> Once you're an adult, do you even need one in the first place?

Yes adults need it. Humans are animals like that.

[1shooner]

>Once you're an adult, do you even need one in the first place?

>I'm 24

No offense, but you're barely an adult. Life is hard, everyone needs help at some point. This is not a new concept.

[constantcrying]

Yes, I don't even know what "emotional support" would look like.

I have never wanted to externalize my emotions and the idea of talking to my friends about my feelings seems utterly bizarre.

[sumeno]

This is the saddest thing I've read on HN and that's saying something

[constantcrying]

Why do you think it is sad?

[matrix87]

I mean, I talk to friends and family about stuff that's going on. But I don't turn to them for actual advice because usually my own advice is better

[constantcrying]

I like to talk to my friends about many things, my emotions just do not include that and at no point in my adult life have I ever felt any inclination to do so.

[watwut]

You have never talked about being angry, about being happy? Those are emotions. And I see men writing about feeling lonely on hacker news all the time.

Developers talk about being frustrated by tasks. Frustration is an emotion.

[constantcrying]

>You have never talked about being angry, about being happy?

No. Why would I?

>Developers talk about being frustrated by tasks. Frustration is an emotion.

But they do not seek emotional support, they seek advice on how to overcome that frustration.

>And I see men writing about feeling lonely on hacker news all the time.

Coincidentally I have also never felt lonely.

Not once in my life have I felt the need to externalize my emotions. Of course I have had problems in my life, which I talked about with parents and friends, but my emotions where never part of that.

[watwut]

> But they do not seek emotional support, they seek advice on how to overcome that frustration.

Totally not. They seek validation and venting. Men in general don't like being given advice, rarely seek it and when they do, they are explicit a put seeking it.

[stevenAthompson]

> it's meant to infantilize them

There are a few assumptions embedded within this statement.

Firstly, you assume that 'they' have an intent other than the stated one, without explaining who 'they' may be, why 'they' would want to do this, and that 'they' have managed to be the only large group of humans to ever keep a secret successfully.

Secondly, you imply that 'being infantalized' would somehow be harmful to you, and that it might reduce your ability to care for yourself.

I suspect that as a relatively young person you've realized that you are an adult, but not what that actually means yet. It means that YOU get to help decide what being an adult means, and how other adults should be judged.

If living an isolated life brings you joy somehow, that's fine. We aren't all wired the same. However, the rest of us are starting to realize it doesn't have to be that way, and as your fellow adults we don't have to do it the same way our largely miserable, broken, and frightened grandparents did.

[matrix87]

Looks like you read through my bullshit

The point of those beliefs is simple: that's what it takes to get results in this economic system. It's toxic fuel. Whether or not it makes sense is irrelevant

In this economic system, everyone is a free agent trying to maximize their own wealth, but at the same time we have a need for support. People can simultaneously be wolves and sheep

I'm not saying that people shouldn't confide in each other. I'm saying that in this fucked up world, you need both. One side comes naturally because we don't come out of the womb scheming, the other is a hard truth that we all have to make peace with. If you want to keep your stuff, you have to fight for it. Toxic masculinity isn't some pointless evolutionary quirk, it's solving a specific problem in the circle of life

[em-bee]

which problem is toxic masculinity solving? i don't get it. all my life i try to get away from that, and make sure i am not becoming like them. if toxic masculinity is needed to be successful, then i'd rather be a failure. i refuse to howl with the wolves as it were.

[kbelder]

I feel similarly, personally. I can't imagine needing emotional support... emotions are tools of my psyche, and needing another's help would mean that something was broken within myself that I needed to fix.

That doesn't mean relationships and support aren't helpful, for many reasons. I just don't see a need for them for emotional support.

But people are different, and we all develop unique inner mechanisms. So I don't think other men should be criticized as infantile for needing or wanting support, just as you wouldn't criticize women for the same; it's just a difference in how the individual processes their emotions.