[jll29]

IMHO There is a huge gap for affordable hotels for normadic workers and business people.

Hotel rooms suck when you need to use them for work. Typically there are massive beds and I travel alone if for work. There is no proper chair, no writing table at all or one too small, and the sockets tend to be in the wrong corner of the room.

If I was an entrepreneur outside of software looking for a gap, I might have invented a hotel chain for work stays. But I'm not, so here is the idea for you to get rich with it (so I can stay there one day).

I like the OP's idea of using ML models to gather intelligence from hotel photos. For years I took a photo of nearly every hotel room with my laptop on the desk so that I could go back and re-book the rooms that were suitable if there was a conference in the same city again in the future.

[chefandy]

They know what they’re doing. Most hotels ‘are’ built for work, but they’re built for what most workers use them for: work travel. Though probably common for developers, I’ll bet it’s pretty unusual for the other like 96% of people to want to do deep work in a hotel room. Especially if you’re on the road for work, you’re probably the sort of worker that needs to physically be somewhere remote to accomplish a goal, which makes it even less likely you’re going to be doing deep work in your hotel room. Most have “business centers” where you can bang out a zoom call, rally the troops before a meeting you flew in for, print something out for a presentation, or whatever. I’m sure most professional use cases are far better served by those accommodations than amping up their rooms for the handful of people that need to be in a room by themselves sitting in one spot for long enough for the chair to be a big factor while they travel.

[godelski]

Hanlon's Razor

I think there's a simpler explanation: most people don't do work when they go to hotels, they do the work like you are discussing. Doesn't mean they are intentionally being hostile to remote workers.

One thing I've realized about the world is that a lot of people do things just because others are. "Momentum is a bitch." I will bet you very few people are thinking this way, at least very few that make decisions. And the ones that do probably think it is not worth the money. There's a ton of things where markets don't exist simply because the environment doesn't exist, so the people that can make the environment don't because there is no market. It's the whole "build it and they will come" thing. People are very risk adverse. People are hard to move. Would hotels benefit from this? Probably. I mean even not just considering nomads, most people work from their computers[0].

But it very easily could be one of those things where there's push because there's no market and there's no market because there's no push.

[0] The way people have been talking about working at CES has sounded silly. There was a LTT video where they mentioned how WiFi used to be better in some locations so those rooms were more desirable and the hotel's solution was to make it standard for everyone. They seemed to be suggesting that they brought down the quality rather than balanced.

[chefandy]

I’m not sure how what I said could be interpreted as suggesting they are hostile to remote workers.

And I think there’s a very good chance hotels would not benefit from this. Maybe in a tech center, but that’s a tiny fraction of hotels. Good office chairs are designed to be very adjustable, but they do tend to break when people twist one thing too far the wrong way because they don’t know how it works, and it would probably take staff 10 minutes just to figure out it was broken rather than just misadjusted. They’re also expensive as hell, and charging a guest $3000 because their luggage got caught on and tore up the mesh seat is probably not going to fly. Small higher-res monitors are also more expensive than huge TVs, and as or more delicate. The staff would spend more time than is probably worth it telling gran and gramps that they can’t use the “little television” like that. All of this stuff has to be handled with smoothness and grace 24/7 by a desk staff that don’t regularly use these items in their professional lives. You can’t just say “it’s a computer monitor gramps don’t use it” and hang up the phone. Many people also consider office equipment ugly, and how the room visually hits when you walk in is a huge consideration. Some weary overworked travel-worn office drone would probably want to jump out the window if they opened the door to their safe place of respite only to see a the better part of a corporate workstation looking back at them.

Designing experiences can be complicated and difficult, and that’s even more true because many of the most important aspects of it aren’t even consciously perceived by the intended audience. They all just fit organically unto a unified experience.

[matt-p]

The best solution to all these problems is to have a extra 'co working' room that any guest, or for a fee anyone, can use and just bill an extra $15/day to use it (or whatever) including the coffee machine.

Working and sleeping in the same room is actually not that great for you most the time.

[chefandy]

Most hotels that I’ve stayed in recently have one that they call a “business center” or similar. They’re the new hotel gym.

[matt-p]

Most that I've stayed in don't but often have pools and gyms. I suspect it comes down to if they're targeting a 'business traveler', for example it's definitely a thing in 'corporate' hotels or ones by a airport.

[FredFS456]

> There was a LTT video where they mentioned how WiFi used to be better in some locations so those rooms were more desirable and the hotel's solution was to make it standard for everyone. They seemed to be suggesting that they brought down the quality rather than balanced.

This was from their podcast 'WAN Show' a week or two back, specifically about hotels in Las Vegas.

[gruturo]

I agree with your point, generally, but after COVID-19, remote working is opening new use cases: I occasionally like to travel to somewhere nice, far away from the office, and work from there for a week, because I'm now allowed to.

So I too now care about a decent chair, desk and maybe even a tv I could turn into a second screen. Wifi can be there or not, I bring my own connectivity just to play it safe, this is now quite cheap. Bonus if the place is a couple time zones away from my office so I have my mornings or afternoons free.

I'm not a huge fan of AirBnB but it's been more reliable than hotels for a few of these factors: hotel TVs are locked-down and many won't accept an HDMI input, assuming there's a socket at all. Normally you're not offered (barring extravagant prices) more than just a bedroom, so the chance of table and chair being any good (or existing) are not so good), etc.

[chefandy]

As far as business investments go, I’d need to see some really solid market research showing enough people were willing to choose a hotel for these amenities in-room rather than a one with a “business center” as many currently have, a coworking space, coffee shop, or even a public library. People wanting specialized private spaces like that don’t generally look to hotels to meet their needs, and considering how quickly hotel room outfitting expenses scale, it really has to be worthwhile. For example, an in-room stationary bike would probably be cheaper and more popular than a good office chair and monitor, but it just doesn’t make sense because enough people will be satisfied with an in-hotel fitness center. I think its really easy to assume our use cases are far more universal than they are.

[elicksaur]

As someone who has thought about this remote style, but hasn’t done it, I don’t think I’d want to be in the hotel room much. I’d much rather find a coffee shop to work from where I can get some of the vibe of the city while still working.

Otherwise, you’d only get a few hours per day in the evening of experiencing anything you couldn’t do at home, so what’d be the point of spending home rent +hotel +travel for the week?

[ghaff]

I suppose it depends somewhat on why you're there and how well you can work in an ambient social environment. Mind you, I don't really disagree but, if I'm focused on a computer screen, I'm not sure how schlepping my laptop to a random coffeeshop is that different from being in my hotel room.

[__MatrixMan__]

I usually stand at the ironing board (they're typically height adjustable). Keyboard goes on board, laptop goes on trashcan which is on board (just to get the screen higher). I usually bring some paracord so I can tie the whole contraption to something heavy so it doesn't wobble. Sometimes I'll use the cord to hang a second travel monitor from some nearby art--still working on a proper harness for it.

It's fun. I occasionally get work done too.

[Tempest1981]

lol, sounds janky but fun. Would like to see a picture.

I'm surprised ironing boards are so readily available.

[fragmede]

the world will come to learn about hand held steamers eventually.

[KolmogorovComp]

Not really, businessmen/women usually need their stuff ironed.

[echoangle]

And they are ironing their stuff on their own in their hotel room? Isn’t there a service for that?

[ghaff]

Costs money (which may or may not be reimbursed) and time. Providing an ironing board and iron are cheap and, while doubtless less common than it used to be, is probably something some number of people expect. (I've never personally used them in a hotel.)

[blincoln]

Hotel laundry services of any kind are unbelievably expensive in my experience. Usually US$10-30 per item, or the local equivalent, with e.g. socks and underwear being at the low end, slacks and collared shirts at the high end. Dry cleaning, of course, is a significant premium beyond that.

I thought it was just a US thing when I was younger, but I've found it to be true even in other countries.

[appreciatorBus]

Sure, but if your company isn’t going to pay it, then you are going to prefer to iron it yourself. :)

[lazide]

Not at 2am when their flight lands, and they have a meeting the next morning.

[throwaway173738]

Yeah if the hotel is nice enough then usually you can have suits and shirts pressed for a fee. If they don’t have on-site “wash-and-fold” then they probably won’t press clothes either.

[GuB-42]

Hotel rooms are simply not designed to be places to do work in. They are places for you to sleep in, so of course, the bed is the centerpiece.

I took a look at business hotels in Japan. These are hotels explicitly designed for work travel and nothing more. Small rooms, bed, shower, but not much to actually work. And it actually makes sense. If you are on a work trip, why would you want to work in your hotel room? The whole point of a work trip is to visit a work place, that's where you are going to work, not your hotel room. In fact, from my limited experience of work travel, doing more work is the last thing I want to do when I am back at the hotel, it is often an exhausting day, and there is a good chance I have to get up early the next day, so the hotel room is for relaxation and sleep.

If you really want to work in your hotel room, or do anything other than using the bed and shower for that matter, you are probably better off with "apartment hotels" and short term rentals. If available, student residence rooms can be a minimal option for working and sleeping, that's what they are designed for. Note that there are also hotels with co-working spaces.

Maybe what you want, that is essentially a short-stay student room for grownups will happen one day, but I see many obstacles in making it a "get rich quick" investment. It may not be a great hotel for those who just want to sleep (or have other kind of fun). And if you want to eat in there, you will lack the amenities an appartement offers. And if you are not alone, a co-working space may be a better option.

[2143]

I was going to say what I’m about to say as a reply to the parent, but then I saw your comment mentioning Japan.

The rooms in Clayton Bay Hotel in Hiroshima absolutely has a nice proper work desk and a work chair. So if anybody here is ever in Hiroshima Japan, you now know where to stay :)

Not sure if this applies to all room types though.

Disclaimer: I’m not related to that hotel in any way other than having stayed there one night some years ago.

[codingdave]

You are assuming that the work place you are visiting is your own company. Most of my travel has been for consulting, demos, and such things. You go to someone else's workplace to meet with customers. It is not a place you can grab a desk and do your own thing. So when you need to prep for the next meetings, your hotel room is the perfect place to do such a thing.

[ekianjo]

I travel a lot and I agree that most hotels suck for work. But the primary function of a hotel is to provide a safe place to sleep. If I want to do work, my best bet is to stay late in the office where I spent the day, since most people will leave at some point. I get good chairs there, large rooms and monitors if I need. It's much better than trying to retrofit a small hotel room into something else.

[throwaway173738]

Yeah and even if you’re a guest of the office I can’t imagine most places would shoo you out after your business with them is concluded.

[ekianjo]

Yeah, most of the time you just need to ask ahead of time and people will accommodate.

[choilive]

Depends on where you're looking.

There are usually plenty of "business" oriented hotels near airports, business parks, central business districts, convention centers, etc . (And that definitely reflects on the trip office map). Touristy areas have more tourist/traveller oriented amenities.

[seb1204]

The one with a room they call business center which has a printer and a fax machine?

[ghaff]

I used to travel a lot for work. Hit about 180 days one year. (OK, about a month of that was vacation.) I'm not primarily a developer but I do a lot of writing. Honestly, I've never felt particularly constrained from doing that on the road but, then, although I have a nice home setup, I don't need that nice setup to work.

And I like having a king bed even if it's just me. (I do like having a desk and some sort of office chair though even that isn't really critical most of the time.)

[lodovic]

I think companies such as WeWork or Servcorp try to fill that gap. I don't like working in the same room that I sleep in - you have to keep the room tidy for video calls, handle housekeeping, and hope that the seat won't break your back. The rent-an-office locations are usually pretty well equipped with good desks and large monitors.

[ghaff]

When I was traveling a lot that would have seemed like way more logistics than I would have wanted to deal with--and I doubt my company would have covered. Presumably if you're traveling on business you're in the location for some other reason than working on your computer for most of the day.

[amelius]

By the way I have also found that most hotels suck at draining water from the shower. Usually after only 5mins the bathroom is a complete mess. I suspect this is on purpose, so that guests don't use too much water.

[oefrha]

For all the problems of AirBnBs and co., every single one I ever booked was better for working with a computer than every single hotel room I ever booked within 2x price.

[bfeynman]

That seems like nonsense. Hotel chains and esp business travel ones it'svery standard for hotels to have desks and a chair. Not saying it's that nice but those are way cheaper than airbnbs usually

[Scoundreller]

Once I specifically booked an airbnb because they promoted their 17" LCD with hdmi, usb-c and dvi inputs. I'm like, why don't more offer this?

[CobrastanJorji]

I think the answer is the first word in your sentence. How many times have you stayed at a hotel? Now how many times have you stayed at a hotel because they promoted a good work space? Both cost about the same to run, and one has a much greater need.

[notahacker]

Plus people that do like to spend much of the year travelling around doing deep work are (i) relatively likely to book short stay apartments instead of hotels and (ii) relatively unlikely to be particularly fussy about working environments since they're actively choosing travel over convenience and optimal working environments

[ghaff]

If I think I just can't work without multiple monitors and a high-end office chair (and maybe printer), I probably won't travel or I'll get a co-working space of some sort. When I traveled a lot for work, it was some combination of the event/trip was my working and/or I just worked on my laptop wherever.

I'm semi-retired now but I'm temporarily staying in a Marriott property (Springhill Suites) that does have a usable desk and office chair which is just fine for writing at for me--though people with very specific requirements probably wouldn't like it.

[intelVISA]

Plugging in random USBs is brave!

[idoescompooters]

Hotels all have 30-day maximum stays. And they always use the cheapest bandwidth pool so internet speeds are not good. And it's shared.

[kristoffervh]

Take a look at CitizenM. I travel a lot for work and that is my go-to place due to how tailored it is for also getting work done.

[veeti]

In my experience Holiday Inn Express usually has a good computer chair too.

[petepete]

I like CitizenM, the only negative is a lack of kettle in the room.

[citizenpaul]

>I might have invented a hotel chain for work stays.

That's basically what wework is. I know you can't officially sleep there. I don't know what they would do if you slept in one of the 24/7 access plans though.

Also you are vastly overestimating the amount of "work" people do in hotel rooms that are not in tech.

[ghaff]

I worked for a mid-size tech company for many years and did a lot of travel (not as a developer). Sure I'd check email and maybe do some writing. But, while I liked having a halfway comfortable chair, I was pretty much content to work with my laptop on my lap if that were the only option. I wasn't great at focusing on writing an article for one of our in-house pubs say, but that had very little to do with work amenities and more with the fact that I traveling to attend an event etc. so I had a lot of distractions.

(For an extended trip to a single location where I was only intermittently at a customer etc., maybe I'd consider asking for a co-working space but I never did and don't think I'd have gone to the trouble.)

[wslh]

In many hotels there are other spaces where you can work beyond your room.