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by Cyph0n 519 days ago
If stooping down to their level is the move we make, then we should immediately stop acting as if we are more “free” or democratic than China. You can’t have it both ways.
4 comments

You realize it was a representative-democratic process chose to enact TikTok ban, so your statement is literally false on that dimension alone.
you're implying that these elections are on equal grounds with truthful candidates. I think that's a small part why America has become decreaingly distrustgul of politicians but still vote. Many people on both sides of the aisle have admitted 2024 felt like choosing the least bad candidate.
The root cause of this sort of comment is people often equate the outcome of democracy == good or desirable to them or even the majority, which is not necessarily the case. People can whine about the outcome of a democratic process all they want, which even if done perfectly could be a compromise that is distasteful to all parties but still democratic.
You'd normally be right. But the US did just have the richest man in the world setup a lottery to buy votes, and walked it back to "oh it was rigged anyway" when called out on it. Any lawsuits is pennies compared to the results.

It was subtle before with stuff like Gerrymandering that the layman would never notice. But it's so blatant now that the democratic process is compromised.

When he got away with calling the Thai diver "pedo guy" using the "lol jk" defense then he knew he could get away with anything.
> you're implying that these elections are on equal grounds with truthful candidates

Where exactly is the commenter implying this?

No political process on Earth, democratic or otherwise, has ever met this standard.

But is it the Will of the People?
Yes. I also realize that a democratic system allows for making decisions that do not align with such a system, and can in fact destroy such a system from within.

Is this not what we have all been saying about Trump? Or are you saying that is OK because his moves have been made within the framework of a democratic system?

How is "everybody has freedoms except the governments of adversarial foreign countries" not more free than "nobody has freedoms"?
You could reasonably argue that, but only for now. The precedent set here opens a can of worms that we should aim to close sooner rather than later.

But the mechanism we are using is one and the same - this is essentially the launch of a “Great Firewall of America”, just enforced a bit differently.

Is allowing them to impose the same kind of restrictions in their US app as they do for their own citizens good for free speech?
> then we should immediately stop acting as if we are more “free” or democratic than China.

This is a histrionic response. America can still be more free and democratic than China while also enforcing a ban on their businesses.

Blanket censorship of this kind is not the hallmark of a healthy democracy.

This ban is the definition of a slippery slope - this ban may be in your interests, but eventually one will not. What then?

This isn't blanket censorship, period. Every single user that currently voices their stance, values or opinions can continue to do the exact same thing on any other platform they choose. Just not TikTok, because they are a business owned by an adversarial government that deliberately uses their soapbox to manipulate democratic audiences: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania...

Also don't forget - TikTok has remediation options where they continue to operate in America as an American business instead. They are the ones that refused that and chose censorship. America just forced the choice between eating the cake and having it.

Edit: Correct, it is not. The part that is censorship on China's behalf is the enforcement of the Great Firewall and enaction of laws prohibiting citizens from owning or consuming foreign news or entertainment. China's ban on foreign apps could just as well be explained by a desire for better domestic software markets - the same cannot be said for the Firewall.

Edit 2: Yes, secession would settle this. China has proven that they cannot be trusted to disseminate information through a state-owned apparatus. If the owner continues to be a government entity, then continuing to let them do "business" is like letting the Trojans wheel in their horse so the citizens can marvel at it.

By the same token, the Chinese ban on US apps is not censorship, correct?

So if you accept to cede control we will leave you alone. Blackmail, in other words, exactly like China does it.

Feel free to record a 30s video on the topic of Tiananmen Square and post it on X, Facebook and Chinese TikTok. Report back with results in 24h. In the conclusions section, point out the difference between censorship and moderation.
How about you record a 30s clip of atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza and watch how quickly it will be “moderated” into oblivion.