[talldayo]

This isn't blanket censorship, period. Every single user that currently voices their stance, values or opinions can continue to do the exact same thing on any other platform they choose. Just not TikTok, because they are a business owned by an adversarial government that deliberately uses their soapbox to manipulate democratic audiences: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania...

Also don't forget - TikTok has remediation options where they continue to operate in America as an American business instead. They are the ones that refused that and chose censorship. America just forced the choice between eating the cake and having it.

Edit: Correct, it is not. The part that is censorship on China's behalf is the enforcement of the Great Firewall and enaction of laws prohibiting citizens from owning or consuming foreign news or entertainment. China's ban on foreign apps could just as well be explained by a desire for better domestic software markets - the same cannot be said for the Firewall.

Edit 2: Yes, secession would settle this. China has proven that they cannot be trusted to disseminate information through a state-owned apparatus. If the owner continues to be a government entity, then continuing to let them do "business" is like letting the Trojans wheel in their horse so the citizens can marvel at it.

[Cyph0n]

By the same token, the Chinese ban on US apps is not censorship, correct?

So if you accept to cede control we will leave you alone. Blackmail, in other words, exactly like China does it.

[baq]

Feel free to record a 30s video on the topic of Tiananmen Square and post it on X, Facebook and Chinese TikTok. Report back with results in 24h. In the conclusions section, point out the difference between censorship and moderation.

[Cyph0n]

How about you record a 30s clip of atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza and watch how quickly it will be “moderated” into oblivion.

[themacguffinman]

Here's a graphic one (it has a sensitive content warning):

https://www.instagram.com/ajplus/reel/C0SHLYlSynD/

Some others that aren't graphic:

https://www.instagram.com/middleeasteye/reel/C6RA3X0v1-y/

https://www.instagram.com/middleeastmonitor/reel/C4qXD7nvCLV...

https://www.instagram.com/katiecouric/p/CyW65klxgjA/

I'm not very familiar with Instagram, you'll have to tell me if those posts have been moderated to oblivion.

[Cyph0n]

I will try to reiterate my initial point since people keep losing track: banning TikTok is a slippery slope that moves us in the direction of China’s GFW, and we can longer claim a moral highground once we do.

As far as this ban goes, there is in fact a less emphasized angle that explains the strong bipartisan support for this ban (related to Gaza): https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-city/2024/05/06/senato...

[talldayo]

You seem to be unable to reconcile that China can use a platform with some positive aspects for ill. I abhor Israel's actions and the role of their extremist sects in rejecting international oversight. But I also abhor China for using prisoners, slaves and North Korean indentures to harvest Xinxiang cotton. These topics won't be given a fair shake on TikTok because China's focus is on which destabilizes America fastest, not which is the most popular among bleeding-heart liberals. Of course they selectively provide moderation support for offensive topics that makes America look bad - do the same thing for China or Bytedance and the double standard rears it's ugly head. It was never about free speech, just creating a cycle of dependency on China for news and opinions.

On this basis alone, American consumer protections should have banned TikTok from the start. There is no tangible outcome where state-owned social media is given a holistic directive, especially not when China is the owner. I pity you for not keeping up with modern geopolitical tensions, but this is just the beginning of the "censorship" if you're reliant on China to voice your opinion. They had their chance to demonstrate detente, but they chose to fight instead.

[Cyph0n]

I understand the nuances just fine. Nowhere have I said that China is innocent here. Does this ban alone make the US as authoritarian as China? Of course not.

But I also understand that an outright ban of a social media platform is an authoritarian practice, and a bad sign for the future of this country. It is an easy way out, but at the cost of introducing a mechanism by which more censorship can take place.

To me, this ban indicates that the US is willing to ban any platform that does not cave into its demands for content “moderation” (if you will) - just like China has been doing for a while now.

We are not “better” than them anymore, and the sooner we realize this, the better of a chance we have of reversing this process.

[ethanwillis]

We are in fact better than them just as we're better than any UAE royalty.

[baq]

see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Cyph0n]

Not at all. I know that Chinese censorship exists. You - or others, lost track since multiple people are involved here - are the one who’s trying to argue that US censorship does not exist, even in light of this TikTok ban.

Also, you probably don’t realize this, but censorship and moderation are many times two sides of the same coin - depending on the incentives and factors at play.

[baq]

Censorship is very strictly defined as government’s doing. If this isn’t your definition, we aren’t even talking about the same things. I gave you a very concrete example with potentially serious consequences if you’re a Chinese national posting in China vs somebody getting deprioritized on one platform in yours.