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by ok123456 521 days ago
I'm an American too, and I trust an app that has "china" somewhere in it's org chart more than Zuckerberg or any meta product.
6 comments

Is the hate for Meta so great that you actually trust a Chinese app more? China absolutely has zero privacy protection and everything explicitly runs through the great censor wall.

Don’t mince words. Meta absolutely has issues with data collection but it’s comical to think they somehow China is better.

As an American who has more power over me, powerful people in China or powerful people in America?

Who is more likely to give my data to my government to adverse affect?

Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect?

What reasons would a foreign government want information about foreign citizens of its adversary?

At the end of the day you are the outgroup when it comes to the CCP and it'd be best to remember that.

If you are an American, the intelligence community already treats you like you are the outgroup.
Which is another problem entirely but it's whataboutism. It says nothing about the CCPs motivations.
As of yesterday, powerful people in China had a lot of power over you. As of today, they have a lot less. That's a good thing.
It's endlessly amusing that people are willing to speak positively of an authoritarian state, not even for a paycheck which one might not forgive but at least understand, but merely for their daily dose of brainrot[0] videos.

[0] In the dictionary sense of the word: https://corp.oup.com/news/brain-rot-named-oxford-word-of-the...

>Who is more likely to lobby my government to adverse affect?

Dude, the concern is that allowing TikTok is quite literally allowing the CCP to indirectly lobby. It's how this whole thing got started in earnest.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/07/business/tiktok-phone-cal...

The geopolitical utility of the app is to give the CCP more power to manipulate and hurt you. They want to get closer to the level of power that domestic US powers-that-be have. I'm blown away that this seems to lost on so many people commenting here

Maybe my interests and those of the general American public are more in line with the "CCP" than Israel regarding international affairs.
Putting CCP in quotes is silly. It is not a conspiracy theory that the CCP exerts an extreme level of control over ByteDance.

Your interests are probably not aligned with the CCP. The American public's certainly aren't. The Chinese government wants to achieve a hegemony and export their economy and culture by undermining the US wherever they can. We don't fit into that in a way that won't result in a markedly worse life for us.

TikTok would boost content about how Israelis making target practice out of Palestinian children is great and needs to happen more often if it made the US look bad. That you can't see that, or can't separate that instance from other possibilities, is exactly why TikTok is under scrutiny.

It's in quotes because the actual English initialism is CPC.

Using "CCP" shows your ideological bias.

What is the point of App Store rules if your privacy continues to be at risk. Oh yes, every single app must declare if it uses name, or email, or address, or camera, but all of them are exempt except TikTok? If you want to make the App Stores more stringent, sure, go for it.

The issue is ability to manipulate people. However, should not the NSA monitor how the algo is working, and be empowered to cut off TikTok if for example you start seeing a million videos saying "Taiwan, the eastern province of China". I am sure we will still have control, we just need to be smart enough to "tap" into what content is being fed.

What are China going to do to with my data that US companies haven't already done?
It has nothing to do with your data. That whole thing is a red herring.

The risk with TikTok is that it presents media entirely algorithmically, and that algorithm is controllable by the Chinese government and is opaque to everyone else.

Help China's military.
Data collection is a worry of the previous decade, the recommendation algorithm is the battle ground, the US has decided that it much prefers having Meta push its white supremacist and gender wars drivel non stop than what was being shown in TikTok (Israeli atrocities)
While we are at it we should show the Hamas atrocities while we are at it. Would not be complete, without someone of the fake heart pull videos that Hamas traditionally put on as well.
As demonstrated by this ban, we're objectively worse now.

The true threat to our democracy is a foreign power. It's just not China.

What's your objective metric? I would say one side has way more websites and apps blocked than the other. So if we go by that measure then I'd say the one with more websites and apps blocked is objectively worse.
Civil rights aren't a zero-sum game. America must lead by example by not silencing 170 million people because of some "intelligence" that's likely less reputable than Saddam having WMDs or the Marty Rimm report.
Yes banning TikTok is a threat to democracy.
Unironically it is
How so? The law was passed by democratically elected representatives in the US government.
AIPAC (foreign lobby) money.

They also profited heavily from picking favorites. Senator Cotton mysteriously increased his net wealth by 2 million in the past year.

Just because you say it does not make it so. Oh the irony.
I'm an American, and I have worked for both Zuck-owned and Chinese-owned companies, and you really, REALLY might want to re-think your stance. It's extremely ironic that we as Americans have this "question authority" thing so deeply ingrained in our DNA that it pushes us towards authoritarianism just to be contrarian.
Well that's very naive. It sounds like reverse polarization. Thing A is so bad that Thing B is less bad just because it isn't Thing A.
Because youre ignorant of what china somewhere in the org chart means?
Please share a source that's not a CIA funded NGO or think tank.
"Please share a source" is an incredibly dumb retort in the realm of geopolitics.

"Please share a source that the allied powers are going to invade the beaches of Normandy". You can't, because people are working incredibly hard to keep that secret.

So you don't have any? ok.
Yes, there is very little public sourcing for what hostile powers plan to do in a geopolitical struggle. That's how it goes.

It is perfectly reasonable to infer what might happen based on past actions by the specific powers, and on world history. Attempting to gain geopolitical influence through propaganda is nothing new.

So we should "just trust" the same people who said that Saddam had WMDs?
What can China do to our social networks that is materially different than what American tech companies are already doing today?

Maybe I'm being naive because I don't use TikTok, but all the partisan misinformation I see is being spread by either Americans on American social networks or maybe Russian disinformation bots operating on American social networks.

Given enough time - subvert your government. Take control of your country :))
I'm an American too, and I DON’T trust an app that has "china" somewhere in it's org chart.

Answer this: who has genocided 10s of millions? Who has crushed Tibet and threatens Taiwan?

CCP or Zuckerberg?

Nice substitution, now let’s try it in “ByteDance or US Govt” form.

(Please don’t ask naively how US controls mass-media, no desire to follow up on that.)

> Nice substitution, now let’s try it in “ByteDance or US Govt” form.

Not substitution, and you somehow missed the fact that it's China's CCP, not ByteDance. It's China's CCP that acts through a de-facto shell corporation called ByteDance, the same CCP that stands behind the Uighur genocide, Tibet annexation, threat of invasion of Taiwan, etc. That's who you are defending as the desirable option.

I didn't miss anything of that. It only seems to you because you happen to have a very blind eye on the literal inverse (I guess).
Yep, there are no rules in the US, anyone can own a company and do anything they want. There is no evil government pulling the stings from behind the curtain.

https://www.fcc.gov/proceedings-actions/mergers-transactions...

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/biden-admin-delays-enf...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chine...

Are you even aware of the context of the reasons why Tiktok went dark? Did they do it with no provocation? By accepting the US's arguments for the Tiktok ban we're just aligning ourselves with the same ideology of "the enemy" you're trying to malign.

What do you suppose is gained by making CCP pay Zuckerberg for the privilege? Or are you proposing that he'd turn their money down?

The US has done plenty of that sort of thing in south America and the middle east, but it has always had the extra burden of maintaining a narrative under which it was not doing those things. If we let the US ban services that are contrary to its narratives, what's left to stop the US from behaving like China even more than it already does?

Yeah we may have to cross that bridge later. (Indeed, I think it's a major concern that Musk controls Twitter and has demonstrated an inability to criticize the Chinese government time and time again.) But we can at least cross this bridge first.
America has genocided 10s of millions for what it is worth. From Native Americans to slaves to all the wars in the last years to "export democracy". If any country can rival China in killing people needlessly it is the USA for sure.
Hmm if Saddam killed 50 thousand innocent Iraqis each year, and American intervention only cost 40k lives each year ... Then do we deduct 10, or add 40, to the "ten million" number you came up with?
In the 21st century the United States did this? In the 1980s? At what point do we compare countries in a modern era versus a bullet list of their historical record.

By that standard, Norway, Sweden and Denmark should be shunned for their slavery, raping, looting and imperialist colonizing abroad -- in the 10-11th centuries.

You get one guess for who caused the spike on this graph of global deaths.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361...

Not to mention incarceration rates, 119 vs 541 people per 100k. 4.5x difference to an oppressive state.
Don't forget about all the deaths related to unnecessary poverty or lack in health care.
If you’re comparing either current or historic atrocities, China is going to lose badly.

Trying to mix and match is obviously just disingenuous here.

See Myanmar for what Facebook has done.
Then don't use it.
Yeah, and it is within my rights to call for controls over its ownership. After all, we are a free country.

Just like one person getting vaccinated is useless, I want the country to be inoculated from insidious propaganda outside of democratic control and review.

And it is within my rights to point out the hypocrisy of those who cry freedom

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/16/tech/tiktok-refugees-rednote-...

No it's not.
Of course it is. What point are you even trying to make?
Yes, it is. I am doing it right here though, lol.
Tibet was a feudal society. The only people who were "crushed" were the people landowners and the elite monks.

Both sides of the strait want the status quo in Taiwan for various reasons. Detent would be the correct approach instead of further military armament. It would be like if the Soviet Union continued to militarize Cuba from the Cuban missile crisis until the current day.

I'm more concerned about the genocide in Gaza than some CIA assets in Germany playing make-believe.

Well if you want to talk about genocide & Facebook... https://systemicjustice.org/article/facebook-and-genocide-ho...
Can you recommend some social apps from China that we may have not paid attention to? I’m assuming there’s a list more than ‘RedNote’. I tried using WeChat but it’s not where my network hangs, unfortunately.

You probably know some that have enough non-China presence.

Why not just use RedNote? It has all the freedom that is deprived in the US [1]. /s

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/16/tech/tiktok-refugees-rednote-...

You almost fooled me with the sarcasm. I am concerned with how many folks in this thread have massive sympathy for China. No doubt the West has had many issues and continues to do so but China is getting painted here as the bastion of freedom and openness. That they trust a Chinese app more than Meta when it’s absolutely worse in mainland then the lives they have in the West.
with china wysiwyg, with USA you believe you have freedom of ____ (you don’t) and you believe “US-owned” (X is not, hence the quotes) social media is in any way “net positive” for its citizens…
Not sure what your point is? Why are you using quotes on something I did not even say? Weird.
No doubt the West has had many issues and continues to do so

This … you are right in that West has issue … where you are wrong is that the issues are just as dangerous (if not A LOT more) than China. I quoted “US-owned” cause one of the biggest social media platforms that everyone considers “West” is owned by an African

Not all quotes are quoting you or anyone else.