[addicted]

Imagine thinking the U.S. govt and corporate overlords are terrible because they’re banning TikTok and getting back at them by going to a Chinese app. China, the country which has a literal firewall preventing their people from getting information that isn’t vetted, bans nearly every external app because they don’t have control over it, and most ironically, never allowed TikTok, whose banning you think makes the U.S. govt terrible, in China in the first place.

It’s hilarious that all these Redpillers are going on about how they can now communicate with and learn from the Chinese people they’re meeting on Red Book without ever considering why they couldn’t meet those Chinese people on Tik Tok in the first place and coming to the conclusion that this shows that it was the U.S. govt that was bad…

Yeah, the lack of logical thinking in this one instance and your response to it only adds to the evidence that your generation is cooked.

[seo-speedwagon]

Most people I’ve seen are going on about either

1) the novelty of talking to entirely new people, which is a relative rarity since the early, heady days of MySpace when social media was new and gardens felt much less walled. For Gen Z, it might actually be a first given their average age; or

2) how the lives of average people compare to theirs and compare to their prior notions of what they thought life was like

These seem to go both ways btw, e.g. Chinese people being amazed that we really do need to pay for ambulance rides and that it’s not just govt propaganda. People are going where interesting things are happening, it’s plain and simple.

[nozzlegear]

> These seem to go both ways btw, e.g. Chinese people being amazed that we really do need to pay for ambulance rides and that it’s not just govt propaganda. People are going where interesting things are happening, it’s plain and simple.

Sadly, since Rednote is monitored and censored by the CCP, the novelty and depth of those 'wow, your country is really like that?' conversations is rather one-sided. You can bet if the conversation is going to paint a country in a negative light (e.g. Ambulance rides), that country probably isn't going to be China.

[surfpel]

Great point! I hope all those Americans who can't afford basic necessities in this so-called 'developed country' can take solace in the existence of Chinese censorship. Now they can even take solace in the expansion of American censorship!

In the end, what was the real revolutionary propaganda that the American establishment is afraid of? True cost of living statistics.

[nozzlegear]

Actually I think you missed the point. The point wasn't that Americans can talk about anything we want; it's that the Chinese can't talk about the "bad" things that have happened in their country, and many (most?) don't even know about it. If you log into Rednote and ask "What happened on June 4th," you're going to get banned by Chinese censors.

Whereas most Americans know that health insurance is some babyback bullshit that might have worked at one time but doesn't work anymore; and that cost of living is too high in certain cities. The fact that we're sitting here typing at each other about it is proof positive.

[surfpel]

There's a lot to unpack here.

> The point wasn't that Americans can talk about anything we want

Did you even read my comment?

> it's that the Chinese can't talk about the "bad" things that have happened in their country

Wrong / highly misleading. Do you really think a country of 1.4 billion people can raise themselves out of poverty and overall dramatically raise the living standards for the masses without having a government that listens to the concerns of the people all across the country?

> If you log into Rednote and ask "What happened on June 4th," you're going to get banned by Chinese censors

I bet you the entire GDP of Canada that you don't know "what happened on June 4th".

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html

What you are describing here, anti-establishment propaganda, is precisely the reasoning cited for the TikTok ban to begin with, and exactly the reason China has their firewall. So... uh... yeah?

Also VPN's are widely used in China so it really doesn't support your claim.

> Whereas most Americans know that health insurance is some babyback bullshit that might have worked at one time but doesn't work anymore; and that cost of living is too high in certain cities

Exactly! This proves how structurally powerless American freedom of speech is to enact real change. How is it that there were able to secure social services and unprecedented poverty reduction, or even had the political desire to?

> The fact that we're sitting here typing at each other about it is proof positive.

This proves precisely zero things. This isn't even related to anything you said.

"The fact that we're discussing how broken healthcare is proves everything is fine!"

[JetSpiegel]

Did you read your own link past the first paragraph?

> GALLO SAW MANY CASUALTIES BROUGHT INTO THE SQUARE AND DID NOT DOUBT THAT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN BEIJING WERE KILLED BY THE ARMY ON JUNE 3 AND 4.

Yes, a Chilean diplomat was seen as neutral, but was then debriefed by the Americans two weeks later.

[wumeow]

> Chinese people being amazed that we really do need to pay for ambulance rides and that it’s not just govt propaganda.

That viral post is incorrect! Ambulance rides cost money in China! You are not immune to propaganda!

[seo-speedwagon]

How much?

[nozzlegear]

An American and a Chinese citizen are having a discussion on Rednote about freedom in their respective countries. The American proudly says:

"In America, we have true freedom! I can stand in front of the White House and shout, 'I don’t like the President!' and nothing will happen to me."

The Chinese citizen thoughtfully replies:

"We have the same freedom in China. I can stand in front of Tiananmen Square and shout, 'I don’t like the American President!' and nothing will happen to me either."

[spencerflem]

shouting is allowed because the powers that be know it is ineffective

if its looking like it wont be they gun you down. see: occupy wall st., unionization efforts

[nozzlegear]

That's an interesting theory, some would call it conspiratorial, but regardless it's not quite the point.

[keybored]

A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get to talking. The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to go learn American propaganda techniques.

"American propaganda techniques? Sounds conspiratorial" says the American.

"Exactly," the Russian replies.

[nozzlegear]

Great anecdote, I really like it and I'll definitely be using it myself with the parties reversed or changed in the future. But I can't help but feel like we're veering even further off topic here, since nobody was talking about the Russians or propaganda. If you had maybe changed the Russians to Chinese it could've been a real zinger, but I can only assume you just wanted to get what you thought would be a quick dunk in on me with your off topic anecdote.

[bdangubic]

if you think you have “freedom” as an American citizen I have some Enron stock to sell to you … sooooo funny, geeeez

[nozzlegear]

Great comment, hard to argue with that.

[spencerflem]

Man, u just don't get it.

It's spite. Obviously. The point isn't that the CCP is better.

[keybored]

Three paragraphs of non-sequiturs. Yeah they are taking revenge on their own government because it’s their own government which is governing the country they live in. “But what about China” doesn’t matter since they don’t live in China and they don’t plan to move to China.

They want to use an app. These geopolitical-ideological fault-lines doesn’t matter.