[throaway89]

Things like this is why I've been telling (less tech-savvy) friends to get off the internet for 5+ years now. There is just no way to stay clear of corporate control for the average person, regardless of your political opinions.

[reaperducer]

Things like this is why I've been telling (less tech-savvy) friends to get off the internet for 5+ years now.

To your knowledge, has it worked with anyone?

I find that the more I warn people about the invisible problems of the internet, the less they care to change. But perhaps you are more persuasive than I.

[throaway89]

No it has not! It is very scary. I have family members that grew up not caring anything about technology, never owning a computer, being indifferent and criticizing the younger generation for being so tech-addicted. Now they bring their ipad to bed every night, crow about their reddit comments, and generally act as if the internet is essential to their happiness, or is letting them make their mark on the world.

I think that if you grew up using technology pre-2000, or are generally tech-savvy you can easily see the problems and they scare you because you understand the ways that things have changed so drastically. Windows 11 (for one example) doesn't even allow you to set up your computer without being connected to the internet? That's an objectively bad decision as far as a computer product goes; the ONLY benefit is to Microsoft and their data-collection business! But if its normal to you, it's "not a big deal." "Why are you complaining?"

I can be very persuasive, ive been told. But people today are addicted. There is no doubt. You can see the fear in their faces as they try to come up with reasons why "they" are the exception, as if they are different from every other person.

[hulitu]

> the ONLY benefit is to Microsoft and their data-collection business!

Not really. The 3 letter agencies (CIA, NSA) also have a stake in this.

Although CIA put NKVD and STASI in a negative light, they learned a lot from them.

[throaway89]

Good point!

[Jimmc414]

not to mention the irony of announcing this "on the internet"

[throaway89]

Thankfully Hacker News isn't interested in hijacking my brain or addicting me or making money off of me. Yet it still does hijack my brain; oddly enough the only real way to steer clear of this, is to steer clear of Hacker News.

[disqard]

I see you engaging in good faith in this debate. I'm also heartened by your self-awareness about how HN hijacks your brain. FWIW, I'm in the same boat, and I still come back here.

I'll share something that might mitigate some of your turmoil: with any ascendant (and disruptive) technology, the only way to criticize it is by leveraging that technology.

Socrates' lament on the dangers of literacy is known today because it was written down (yes, by Plato... but it was written down).

[tedunangst]

"The corporations don't want me to say this on the internet, so fine, I didn't want to say it anyway!"

[throaway89]

Not what I said.

[Lionga]

You can not stay clear of "corporate control" outside of the internet either, probably even way less so.

So either be a hermit or teach/learn how not deal with it.

[throaway89]

That's a totally false dichotomy and indicative of the attitude I'm talking about. You can have a social circle that isn't subject to surveillance (let alone control) by the corporation that owns the platform you are speaking on, because REAL LIFE is not a platform!

[bdangubic]

in real life I assume you have a cell phone? no greater surveillance than that… drive a car? license readers are everywhere… etc etc

unless you move to amish country you are subject to surveillance which is only going to get worse…

[throaway89]

You know what they say about assumptions! I have no cell phone and dont own a car. I dont need either and truly feel pity for those who do, realistically or otherwise, feel they need one. Im not interested in playing a fatalistic game of race-me-to-the bottom.

Surveillance isn't even my main concern. It's the hijacking of people's attention, and the way it makes people think that they can somehow live out their life on the internet in a way that's comparable to real life, that makes me upset and has soured me on the internet.

[bdangubic]

gospeed mate! if you own no car and no mobile big thumbs up!

[hulitu]

> You can have a social circle that isn't subject to surveillance

Your phone knows where and who you are, your (new) car knows where you are. Same for your friends.

[throaway89]

Can your phone or your car remove you from real life? Are you required, by definition, to use a car or a phone to talk to people, in real life?