[bruce511]

I live in a city without a subway. But as a child (approximately 8 I think) I would ride the bus into the city from the suburbs for swim training.

We lived on a mountain, the first time I walked to the top I was 6. My fellow hikers were 6 and 7.

To describe it as a different time is massive understatement. My own kids were teenagers before they walked to the corner store without an adult.

There is a perception that suburb living is more dangerous now. But I think perhaps the real issue us that as parents we were much more involved with the kids, which in turn made them less self-reliant. I would not gave dreamed of letting my young kids loose on the bus system, and I suspect they didn't have the upbringing to handle it.

My parents trusted us enough to "figure out our way home". And we did. (Notably well before phones obviously.) I'm not sure I was confident enough that my own kids would do likewise .

[Gigachad]

I do wonder if part of the decline in birthrates is due to a massive increase in the expected responsibility of parents. Back in the day parents basically just ensured their kids had food/shelter/stuff for school, but were otherwise unburdened.

Now its an expectation that parents are monitoring their kids 24/7 and driving them around to a range of activities all day.

[vel0city]

> My own kids were teenagers before they walked to the corner store without an adult.

> Im not sure I was confident enough that my own kids would do likewise.

> But I think perhaps the real issue us that as parents we were much more involved with the kids, which in turn made them less self-reliant.

Sorry for taking your quotes a bit out of order. But I'm trying to put together an idea of how to raise my own kids, which are still under 5. I am absolutely trying to be a part of their life, but at the same time try and encourage self reliance in certain ways. Despite having a car to drive them everywhere, I try and make a lot of trips on public transit/walking/biking. I point out how to know what bus we're on. I point out how the train platforms work. I try and show them how to interact with the world. Do you think if you would have done things differently it would have led to the same outcome?

Not critiquing your own parenting style or whatever. Just trying to see if this is just something I should end up expecting or if it's something I might be able to do something differently.

Personally I'd love it if they managed to get to the library and home on their own at 13 by public transit. And to a certain extent I don't think that's a big expectation; it's a single bus transfer from a stop right outside our front door.

[cycomanic]

> Personally I'd love it if they managed to get to the library and home on their own at 13 by public transit. And to a certain extent I don't think that's a big expectation; it's a single bus transfer from a stop right outside our front door.

That's a ridiculously low expectation. My older daughter took the bus alone to school by herself when she was 7 (and was immensely proud) and took her little sister with her by age 9. We live in a country with much worse public transport now, but she is walking back to and from the swimming pool (Abt 2km though the city).

I believe giving them independence and trusting them early is the key to success. It's actually much easier now then back when we grew up, she just got a kids smart watch (her request) so she can call if there is something wrong, we never had anything like that (if we were lucky there was a public payphone)

[vel0city]

One thing to clarify: are you talking a city bus or a school bus? I wouldn't worry about even a five year old riding a school bus alone. They're on a bus with one final safe destination or a known regular stop coming home, the bus driver is expected to watch out for the kids, and all riders of the bus are peers.

This is far different from a city bus where I wouldn't expect the same from a regular driver, the children aren't going to be taking nearly as regular ridership of the route, and the people on the bus are likely to not be other children trying to get to school and home.

But then again it really showcases a difference in mindset from riding transit and kids self sufficiency in the US versus overseas. Many people think I'm crazy for riding public transit with kids today and think I'm a complete nut for hoping they'll figure it out by thirteen. Meanwhile others can't imagine waiting to thirteen to trust them on transit.

[bruce511]

I don't mind the critique at all. Frankly I think most parents look back and spot gaps where they could have done better. It's a difficult thing to get right all the time.

I don't think your expectation is big. When I was 13 we visited London for the first time. (A different continent to where I was raised.) We stayed there for 3 weeks, and by week 2 my brother (14) and myself were riding the subway without our parents. (It really isn't that hard to figure out.)

But equally by 13 we'd had a lot of experience with public transport at home - busses home from school, or into the city, and so on.

I don't think age has terribly much to do with it. Exposing kids to the process, making sure they have the tools to deal with the unexpected. A small amount of emergency getting home money - these days a phone obviously - and I'd likely toss in a tracking device of some kind (in addition to the phone.)

I think you are on the right track. Get them familiar with the options, and then slowly get them more involved. They can buy the tickets - identify when to get off. Perhaps "miss" the stop a couple times to show what happens if you do, and so on.

In some countries letting the driver know where you plan to get off is good if you're young. Don't rely on it, but in lots of places drivers are happy to keep an eye out. (And you don't have to be young. I caught a bus in Norway once with no idea of when I was getting off, I just told the driver and he stopped at the right place, and let me know it was my stop - I was probably 35 at the time.)

For children, it's not about age, it's about experience. Once they've got the pattern down, the age really doesn't matter at all.

(Ironically, looking back, I don't think my folks ever rode the bus with us. It was more like - "there's the bus stop, here's money for the fare, get off at the right stop - how hard can it be?" :)

[vel0city]

> In some countries letting the driver know where you plan to get off is good if you're young.

I've definitely experienced this a few times even as an adult obviously out of place. I've usually found bus drivers happy to help people who aren't being a problem, I imagine it can be a bit refreshing and rewarding for the bus operator at times as long as you're not being a bother or a drag on their schedule. The bus drivers in Montreal were very nice despite barely speaking English and I only have Duolingo level knowledge of French. :D Je ne parle pas bien français! J'essaye.

Thanks for the insights and sharing. I really appreciate insight into how others raised their kids and what worked and what didn't. One last question, what country/region were you in raising your children with public transit? US? Major metro or more mid-pop?