[cycomanic]

> Personally I'd love it if they managed to get to the library and home on their own at 13 by public transit. And to a certain extent I don't think that's a big expectation; it's a single bus transfer from a stop right outside our front door.

That's a ridiculously low expectation. My older daughter took the bus alone to school by herself when she was 7 (and was immensely proud) and took her little sister with her by age 9. We live in a country with much worse public transport now, but she is walking back to and from the swimming pool (Abt 2km though the city).

I believe giving them independence and trusting them early is the key to success. It's actually much easier now then back when we grew up, she just got a kids smart watch (her request) so she can call if there is something wrong, we never had anything like that (if we were lucky there was a public payphone)

[vel0city]

One thing to clarify: are you talking a city bus or a school bus? I wouldn't worry about even a five year old riding a school bus alone. They're on a bus with one final safe destination or a known regular stop coming home, the bus driver is expected to watch out for the kids, and all riders of the bus are peers.

This is far different from a city bus where I wouldn't expect the same from a regular driver, the children aren't going to be taking nearly as regular ridership of the route, and the people on the bus are likely to not be other children trying to get to school and home.

But then again it really showcases a difference in mindset from riding transit and kids self sufficiency in the US versus overseas. Many people think I'm crazy for riding public transit with kids today and think I'm a complete nut for hoping they'll figure it out by thirteen. Meanwhile others can't imagine waiting to thirteen to trust them on transit.