[iLemming]

> I've always found it weird how many people are obsessed with vi/vim and/or Emacs.

Because you've never truly done it. Like someone who has seen all three sides, I can tell you this: I have never, even once, even for a second, ever regretted my time invested in learning Vim and Emacs. Vim is hands-down the best mental model for navigating through text - I use it everywhere - in my editor, in my terminal, in my browser; heck, I use it system-wide - in my window manager. It's immensely empowering - being able to control things without losing context - your fingertips are in control of everything, you don't even need to shift your hand to touch the mouse or arrow keys. It also liberates you from learning myriad key combinations for every single app, it gives you freedom from having to learn, remember and having to perform weird dactylar dance, where sometimes you can't even reach the exact keys without looking down at your keyboard, not to mention the ergonomics.

And then Emacs. OMG, Emacs is so amazing, you just have no idea. The things you can do in Emacs are hard to describe in words - you just need to see it.

> 90% of my code editing time is spent reading and thinking, not writing or modifying

I spent most of my time taking notes. Emacs is the best tool for that. Matter of fact, I find Emacs is the best tool for any kind of text manipulation. I don't even type anything longer than three words in any app anymore. I'm typing this exact comment in Emacs right now. Why wouldn't I? I have all the tools I need at my disposal - spellchecking, dictionaries, translation, etymology and definition lookup, access to various LLMs - chatgpt, claude, ollama, perplexity, and others, search engines - here's a real, practical example: I would type a search query once and it sends requests to Google, Wikipedia, GitHub, YouTube, etc. I then can pick up the YouTube url, open the video and control its playback while typing - I can pause, mute, resume, speed up the video. All that with the emphasis of the main task at hand - taking notes. Done without leaving the window where the notes are being typed, without having to switch your focus - your mind remains "in the zone". I'm telling you - that's some blackmagic fuckery for staying productive and happy. It's enormously fun when you have complete control over the things happening on your screen.

> I've always found it weird

There's nothing truly "weird" about it. If you are a computer programmer, you do want to be in control of the computing happening on your computer. It's rather weird when there's the opposite - when computer programmers become merely "users", when they are told that "you're holding it wrong" and "users don't know what they want". I for one do exactly what I want - I want the shit on my computer to work and work on my terms, not anyone else's.

[snozolli]

I have all the tools I need at my disposal

Yes, we've all heard the saying that Emacs is an operating system with a text editor built in.

I for one do exactly what I want - I want the shit on my computer to work and work on my terms, not anyone else's.

That's exactly what I get out of the IDEs I've used for decades. This whole argument is so weird, disingenuous, and full of vague strawmen. Just because I don't see the value in investing the time that you have doesn't mean that I'm for giving up control or whatever you were trying frame me as.

Anyway, I'm done here. This site is full of toxic people who are offended that someone doesn't choose the same editor and habits that they do, and any dissent is to be punished.

[iLemming]

I don't think I've made any arguments at all, and definitely haven't said anything disingenuous. I'm not trying to sell you dogmas, and I'm not telling you how to live your life. I have only attempted to share a glimpse of the world you clearly have little understanding of - the assumption that I (not unreasonably) made based on your own words.

Perhaps my usage of pronouns in the last paragraph was confusing; I apologize for that. Since we're talking on a public forum, the "you" wasn't aimed specifically at your persona; I meant it in a generic sense, talking about a "proverbial" programmer.

> This site is full of toxic people who are offended that someone doesn't choose the same editor

I don't know where you're getting this kind of vibe from; my comments are free of toxicity. I think this particular website and the world in general is full of all sorts of people. And if you genuinely try to find helpful and beneficial thoughts and inspiration, you may find some - even within the words of criticism and discouragement. Conversely, someone who sees toxicity whenever they don't get conformance with their views may reap only bitterness and dissatisfaction.

Perhaps you should reflect on the source of your anger; just don't waste energy searching for it in my statements - after all, I merely showed you possibilities. I never forced you toward them - the choice to step through or turn away remains entirely in your hands.

[lispm]

> That's exactly what I get out of the IDEs I've used for decades. This whole argument is so weird, disingenuous, and full of vague strawmen. Just because I don't see the value in investing the time that you have doesn't mean that I'm for giving up control or whatever you were trying frame me as.

I used IDEs also all the time. Makes sense to me.

> Anyway, I'm done here. This site is full of toxic people who are offended that someone doesn't choose the same editor and habits that they do, and any dissent is to be punished.

Yeah, that's weird. You can use all kinds of editors you like. In the case of Lisp, there are arguments that good support for editing Lisp and for interaction with a Lisp runtime is useful (since Lisp is often used interactively). But several IDEs and editors can do that.

Just wanted to give you the impression that are others, who like IDEs and similar tools. ;-)