[RustyRussell]

Worked for American companies for 25 years. Generally Americans come across as more confident, and yet conform to hierarchy in a way I've never seen en-masse in Australian culture. It always seemed to be that only the most weirdo Americans are blind to relative status, whereas for many Australians it's the norm?

Employment-at-will takes some cultural adjustment, too. But for tech folks tends to be a net win. You just need to set your expectations accordingly!

[esperent]

> It always seemed to be that only the most weirdo Americans are blind to relative status, whereas for many Australians it's the norm?

As an Irish person, I have the impression that Australia is very similar to Ireland in this regard. I came across a survey years ago that asked a question along the lines of "in the workplace, is the manager/boss higher status or equal to the staff they manage?" (paraphrasing because it was years ago). Ireland scored amongst the highest that said the boss and other staff are equals. I imagine Australia would too, while the US would score lower on that scale (as did some other EU countries).

I now live in Vietnam, and somehow I've ended up being the boss, with a team of around 20 Vietnamese people. While they are diligent and skilled workers, the level of deference they show to me makes me deeply uncomfortable and I have to keep reminding them to talk to me like a human being - call me by my name instead of "sir", for example. But it's a losing battle.

[sopooneo]

Could it be kinder, at times, to play to the cultural norm? If people have been raised to say "sir" to their boss, could asking them to do otherwise cause them discomfort without benefit?

I have struggled with this myself, as I don't believe work hierarchy should convey any fundamental difference between people, and we are best off treating each other as equals.

[esperent]

No I don't think so. Vietnamese culture is quite flexible, especially young people, and changing fast.

Also, it's not like I'm making a big deal out of it. I'm not forcing anyone to call me by my name, just an occasional reminder. And I have been successful with a couple of the staff who are now relaxed and chatty with me.

There's another aspect which is that age is extremely important in Vietnamese society. As a slightly older male than my staff, I get referred to as "anh" which kind of translates to "older brother", although does have some level of a respectful connotation as well. If I was considerably older I'd be referred to as "chu" (uncle) which has even more respect conferred.

A close (but actually not accurate) English translation to both of these is "sir". I suspect, but haven't been able to confirm, that part of my being called sir comes from this bad translation, and when I can explain that the meaning of sir in English actually comes from the class system rather than the familial respect system, it does get through. But unfortunately there's too much of a language barrier to explain something nuanced like this.

[thro1]

How about asking them to call you "anh" instead of "sir" then ?

[dkjaudyeqooe]

I'd say thats due to:

(a) Australian culture being quite egalitarian, ie people there see other people just as people rather how much money or power they have, etc and

(b) American management being more of the power tripping variety, so they're more likely to wield their power in a threatening and retaliatory fashion, and so underlings tend to be more deferential, including the at-will employment, as you say.

[liontwist]

> American management being more of the power tripping variety

That’s not an explanation. That’s just restating it. Why would Australians be less tempted by power?

Could it be that Americans are more exposed to management and hierarchy in their youth?

[SiempreViernes]

Power tripping isn't really about being "tempted by power", rather it's when you become self-righteous because you got granted (some) power.

If you want some sweeping generalisation for why Americans are more prone to this sin, how about the various old cultural patterns of thought that fit under the header "manifest destiny"?

[liontwist]

Citing an 19th century political movement is not an explanation for why Americans would be “power tripping”.

What practice or ethos has descended from that time which is currently reinforced?

[astrange]

Australia is a colonial nation that unified its entire continent - that's beating the US, who have two large neighbors and a couple small ones.

(Of course both countries have indigenous nations inside them. They're actually very similar, which I think is the reason Australians tend to be culturally resentful of the US on surveys in a way almost no other country is.)

[GJim]

>> American management being more of the power tripping variety

> That’s not an explanation. That’s just restating it. Why would Australians be less tempted by power

Sir would do well to compare Australian police with USA police. Unfortunately, such power tripping really is a thing in USA culture.

[Gigachad]

Employment security has a lot to do with it. Obviously you can’t completely ignore leaders, and if you refuse reasonable instructions you can be fired. But you have a lot more freedom to rock the boat and share your opinion.

You can not be fired just because you hurt a managers feelings by disagreeing with them.

[dkjaudyeqooe]

And you don't lose all (long term) healthcare coverage if you're fired in Aus.

[ajb]

When the UK startup I worked for was bought by a US company, that meant the support functions were consolidated and the IT guys had to join the US centralised IT dept. They visited the US, and the culture shock started to bite when the head of IT got a standing ovation just for walking into the room. (And this was an engineering company, so the head of IT wasn't the CTO).