[grecy]

One third of all donations on GoFundMe are for medical expenses. [1] the very vast majority of that must be Americans.

I’m staggered how many Americans are steadfastly against socialized healthcare for all, but immediately turn to GoFundMe in desperation when their insurance tells them to take a hike.

I can’t help thinking “just do that for everyone”

[1] https://time.com/5516037/gofundme-medical-bills-one-third-ce...

[hypeatei]

> in desperation when their insurance tells them to take a hike.

Socialized healthcare is good because it doesn't mean you're tied to a job or worried about in/out network hospitals. But, care would still be rationed as it doesn't magically provide us with infinite resources.

I just like to point this out since there are very good arguments for socialized care in the US, but this isn't one of them.

[grecy]

Absolutely you are 100% correct.

Socialized healthcare is not perfect.

But it is much, much better that what the US has now. Every other developed country spends vastly less and gets much better health outcomes. [1]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Adopt socialized healthcare now, even though it is imperfect, and then work on improving it as time goes on. That is the path to making stuff better.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health...

[roenxi]

It isn't a case of perfect being the enemy of good, it is that you're looking at what might potentially be the most corrupt, captured and incapable healthcare regulator in the modern world and advocating that they get even more power. That seems like a bad strategy. The US healthcare system won't be fixed by dissociating patients from the process even further.

The obvious thing to do is move power away from the regulator and make it easier for consumers to pay directly for treatment. It works for almost everything else.

[psb217]

It's not unreasonable to argue for socialized healthcare based on treatment denials in private healthcare, since there are impactful differences in the incentives driving denials and rationing in private vs socialized healthcare. I agree that the argument should be more nuanced than just "denials happen".

The incentive for private health insurers is to raise prices and increase denial rate until people are unwilling or unable to pay. People will pay until they can't, since they don't want to die, so this can be pushed pretty far. The incentive for socialized healthcare, at least in principle, is to provide people with as much treatment as is feasible for the amount of incoming funds. In one case rationing is driven by a need to remain solvent and in the other case it's driven by profit maximization. The different incentives lead to significant differences in how people are impacted by the denials/rationing that necessarily exist in both systems.

[nradov]

There is no such incentive for private health insurers. You have completely misunderstood how the business works.

https://www.cms.gov/marketplace/private-health-insurance/med...

[psb217]

If there was no incentive for an entire class of businesses to do X, you would not have to actively work to stop them from doing X.

[zajio1am]

There is still out-of-network healthcare (i.e. specific services or entire healthcare providers not covered by single payer) in many countries with universal healthcare. But it is usually clear which is which.

[grecy]

> There is still out-of-network healthcare in many countries with universal healthcare

Can you provide links?

I've personally used the healthcare systems in Australia and Canada for two decades each, and also for a short time in the UK. I've never heard of this.

[AdrianB1]

Link: https://www.reginamaria.ro/ - one of the biggest networks in the country. I have to use it for most of the regular stuff and I pay a subscription plus out of pocket for some consultations. This is on top of paying 10% of my gross income to socialized healthcare money stealing scheme.

[Symbiote]

BUPA is the largest private healthcare provider in the UK: https://www.bupa.co.uk/

The treatment provided will be similar to the NHS, but with less waiting (if relevant) and nicer facilities, such as private rooms rather than shared wards in hospital.

[kalleboo]

There is a small handful of clinics in Japan that do not accept the universal health insurance, such as specialist ones targeting English-speaking expats.

Example: https://www.nmclinic.net/index.html#about

[zajio1am]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck_model

[refurb]

I’d be interested to see stats on how many are Americans.

It was big news in Singapore where parents were raising millions for their children with a rare genetic disease.

Singapore has social medicine, but it doesn’t pay for gene therapy (but it’s paid for in the US through insurance).

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/crowdfunding-r...

Then add on top all the ones I saw from surrounding SE Asian countries and it’s must add up.

[AdrianB1]

The US healthcare system is insanely expensive. Socialized healthcare is not the solution to this particular problem. Spending the most $ amount in the world with not the best results raises the question about efficiency. Solve that first, otherwise it is just money pit and no realistic amount of socialized money can fill it.

[nobodyandproud]

Americans are presented with a false dichotomy: Socialized medicine or US-style privatized healthcare; where the healthiest are charged 10% or more of their income and the neediest are dumped onto the US government.

It’s welfare for the industry.

[nothercastle]

If you have a non emergency procedure and you are short of cash it seems like medical tourism would be a better choice

[grecy]

It seems like Americans have a knack for coming up with the most convoluted ways of accessing healthcare that are still expensive and inconvenient. Your idea still require paying out of pocket, requires taking unpaid time off work, flights, relying on the healthcare system of a foreign country and more.

That is the worst possible "healthcare" situation I can imagine.

Dozens of countries have shown you pay a lot less and get much better outcomes [1] when you just provide healthcare to everyone all the time, the same way high school, roads and street lights are provided.

Why wouldn't you want that? Why on earth would you think flying to some foreign country is a better solution?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_expectancy_vs_heal...

[JumpCrisscross]

> Americans have a knack for coming up with the most convoluted ways of accessing healthcare

Medical tourism is alive and well even within Europe [1]. And an entire genre of concierge medicine in America caters to rich Europeans (alongside rich Middle Easterners and Asians).

[1] https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/visegrad-cou...

[grecy]

> And an entire genre of concierge medicine in America caters to rich Europeans (alongside rich Middle Easterners and Asians).

Yes, the systems in America favor the rich.

[nothercastle]

I’m not saying it’s a great thing but when things are messed up you need a work around. That’s the work around, the money from go fund me is probably not enough the health care is that unaffordable