[RainyDayTmrw]

An important piece of context, which might not be immediately apparent from this discussion, is that a vast majority of people in and around New York City dislike and distrust the MTA (NYC's public transit organization) to an extreme extent[3][4]. People widely view the MTA as ineffective and its spending as suspect. The MTA has more than doubled fares in recent years[1][2], yet has nothing to show for it.

So, when a policy proposal seeks to send more money to the MTA, people will naturally be skeptical. If all the money so far hasn't made a difference, and NYC public transit is still on a bad trajectory, how can, and indeed why should, we trust giving the MTA even more money yet again?

In particular, (from the article) the MTA claims that the money will fund the 2nd Avenue line extension. Another important piece of context is that the 2nd Avenue line extension has had a terrible track record. It's been start-and-stop for many years. Earlier phases have come in behind schedule, over cost, and covered less distance than originally promised[5][6].

To avoid giving the wrong idea, I should emphasize that I am, in a vacuum, a big proponent of public transit. I think that public transit benefits everyone, and brings so much value above and beyond what it costs. Plenty of cities, internationally, demonstrate this time again, particularly in much of Europe and East Asia, and even some domestically in the US. NYC just isn't one of them. I'm also not upset at the MTA, merely disappointed.

I have observed elsewhere that it is extremely difficult to bootstrap competence where none currently exists, previously in the context of software engineering. This is extremely true for the MTA, also.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_transit_fares#Fa... [2]: The new OMNY "tap to pay" system is also less generous with its weekly discounts than the previously weekly MetroCard discounts. In practice, that's a further price hike for weekly commuters, above and beyond what the single ticket list price captures. [3]: https://pix11.com/news/transit/new-york-city-rider-survey-sh... [4]: https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2021/06/08/mta-nyc-... [5]: https://ny1.com/nyc/manhattan/2nd-ave-subway/2016/12/26/-a-s... [6]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/nyregion/second-avenue-su...

[addicted]

> The MTA has more than doubled fares in recent years[1][2], yet has nothing to show for it.

The current MTA fare is $2.90.

For it to be more than doubled it needs to have been lower than $1.45.

The last time the fare was lower than $1.45 was 1995. That’s hardly “recent years”.

Cumulative inflation since 1995 has been 107%, so basically the MTA hasn’t increased inflation adjusted fares since at least 1995.

[addicted]

It’s also weird to use the 2nd Avenue extension as an example of achieving nothing when the 2nd Avenue subway extension failed for nearly a 100 years and was successfully built a decade ago after that 100 year history of failure.

[woodruffw]

> In particular, (from the article) the MTA claims that the money will fund the 2nd Avenue line extension. Another important piece of context is that the 2nd Avenue line extension has had a terrible track record. It's been start-and-stop for many years. Earlier phases have come in behind schedule, over cost, and covered less distance than originally promised[5][6].

They don't have to claim anything. Congestion pricing revenue is allocated, by law, to capital projects. They can't spend it on trips to Miami, at least until we annex it as the 6th borough.

It's also worth noting that the SAS's plodding pace is largely a political manner, not matter of institutionally wasteful spending: it's a massive capital project, one that has consistently been first on the chopping block during cuts over nearly a century. That means starts and stops, which are always expensive. It also runs under one of the busiest and densest stretches in Manhattan, which makes its construction a political manner: the line runs deep, includes massive station cavities, and cuts through hard Manhattan bedrock to avoid disturbing the buildings or road surface above.

[frenchtoast8]

> The new OMNY "tap to pay" system is also less generous with its weekly discounts than the previously weekly MetroCard discounts. In practice, that's a further price hike for weekly commuters, above and beyond what the single ticket list price captures.

How? The 7 Day Unlimited MetroCard is $34, which is the weekly fare cap in OMNY. Did you mean monthly? I do believe some people in certain situations will pay more with OMNY compared to a 30 Day Unlimited MetroCard due to OMNY fare caps only being counted weekly. Someone who consistently hits the $34 OMNY weekly fare cap pays $4.85 per day on average, but a 30 Day Unlimited MetroCard is $132 ($4.40 per day).

[asoneth]

> Plenty of cities, internationally, demonstrate this time again, particularly in much of Europe and East Asia, and even some domestically in the US.

I agree that NYC's transit system is significantly worse than most European and East Asian transit systems. But I'm curious what US cities you had in mind that demonstrate the value of public transit better than NYC?

In my case, I have ridden transit systems in the US that are slightly cleaner (e.g. DC), slightly cheaper (e.g. LA), feel slightly safer (e.g. Boston, Seattle, DC), but I'd consider NYC the overall best transit system in the US by a significant margin.

[addicted]

[3] shows increasing satisfaction across the board as the system recovers since the issues caused due to the pandemic. Further, most of the concerns lie around perceptions and fears of safety, which is a broader citywide (and nationwide) issue than something limited to the MTA.

The MTA has a lot of issues, but frankly they’re doing a good job addressing some of them. For example, independent analysis of the high costs around the 2nd Ave subway extension found that part of the high costs were because of stations being unnecessarily deep. The MTA incorporated changes based on those analysis in the next phase of the extension and has already reduced costs by over half a billion as a result.

Similarly, the MTA changed its Sandy recovery plan for the L line tunnel fixes to both complete the changes faster and at a significantly reduced cost saving tens if not hundreds of millions, and avoiding 100% closures.

[davidf18]

The MTA costs only $162/28d full fare and seniors and others get it for half that. I conveniently pay by swiping my Apple Watch. This is for transfers throughout the entire system. Compare with the price of Washington DC, a far, far smaller system than NYC and compared with other US cities. Moreover, the NYC subways do not stop at night like almost all world subway systems.