[janetmissed]

It's kind of funny how far back this whinging about kids not being able to use computers goes, especially how condescending this blog is. Most people will only learn as much about computers to do their work and nothing more, because isn't it normal to only learn the bare minimum about something you don't care about?

[dhosek]

The kids these days don‘t know how to use their cars. They go to mechanics to do something basic like change the oil or replace the brake pads when they could spend a few hours doing it themselves in a half-assed way.

[asdff]

It should be said that changing oil does not take hours and however you half ass it, the average lube tech uses even less ass than that.

[Amezarak]

Yeah, on most cars, changing the oil consists of: loosen/remove one bolt, drain oil, unscrew oil filter, put new filter on and bolt back, fill with amount and type of oil specified in manual. (Some also have a little plastic shield you have to remove first.) And yeah, you’re likely to care a whole lot more about your car than some average lube tech. (This is why I change my oil now: I found out how little they care when the lube techs at two different places reattached the plastic shield wrong causing it to fall and drag on the road. Saving money was just a bonus.)

I’ve notice people seriously overestimate how complicated really simple maintenance/mechanical tasks are generally.

I remember hearing an NPR story about a plumber shortage where the person being interviewed had just paid some thousand dollars to have their PVC drain line repaired. I was shocked. They could have done it themselves with a shovel, a hacksaw, and $5 worth of PVC and glue in maybe 10-25 minutes, well within almost anyone’s capabilities if they had thought to look into it before calling someone.

We really are very rich that we can not think about these things.

[Ferret7446]

I expect most people don't fancy crawling under their car nor do they have a lift. It's also surprisingly hard to do DIY stuff if you aren't used to or equipped for it; you can waste hours fiddling with something that you haven't built the wisdom to do in the right/quick/easy way, like unscrewing something in an awkward place or angle.

[asdff]

You can find out how to do this with a hundred different detailed youtube videos.

I will outline the procedure on my car how I do it so you can see how simple it actually is. No you don't need a lift. Yes you lay down but keep in mind 65 year old mechanics can lay down and its not a big ask for most people in good health to lay down under their car.

> unscrew oil cap at the top of the engine

> get plastic pan to collect oil and slide it under the oil pan

> get 14mm socket wrench and slightly loosen the drain plug

> loosen it the rest of the way by hand, then carefully remove the plug to not drop it into the collection pan (not a big deal if it happens)

> go have lunch

> come back and pour a little new oil down

> go and clean up lunch

> come back and screw the drain plug back on with a new copper washer

> unscrew the filter which i do by hand because i do this myself and don't overtorque like the lube tech

> pour a little oil into new replacement filter and screw back on

> fill with oil

> cap the fill lid

> done

as you can see you screw and unscrew three things. this should fit within the mental model of most people quite easily barring intellectual disability.

[Amezarak]

You don't need a lift, you just need some ramps or to use the jack that probably comes with your car with some jack stands. I can't imagine almost any DIYer uses a lift, unless they're moved into the Very Serious Car Person With Project Cars stage of DIY.

[mindslight]

You didn't include jack stands, crawling under the car, nor needing an appropriate place to work in your original description making it sound so easy. I do a lot of DIY including car stuff, but for oil it's a toss up of whether I actually want that hassle or whether I'll just outsource it to a still-competitive market for a low price.

(I did get burned on a cross country road trip by some dipshit stripping my oil pan drain hole. I don't know if they just didn't like the far-off plates, or aluminum was an exotic material to them, or what. But that's much less of a worry when you go to the same local place)

[nothercastle]

I think you underestimate the level of complexity. The actual oil change is simple enough but getting the car lifted requires ramps. Then there is the disposal problem individually each step is simple but when you add them up and trade them against paying 50$ for the oil change it’s not always a great trade.

As for plumbing you definitely underestimate how much of a pain in the a it is to dig a 4-6’ deep hole to do your own pipes. It can be done in a day or 2 outside of most peoples comfort zone.

[Amezarak]

This was a story set in the south, where such pipes are rarely buried more than 2’ because the frost line is basically at the surface.

I’ve done it, so I’m not underestimating it. I’ve had the exact problem described in the story. And I’m definitely not a plumber.

[asdff]

No ramps needed for my car. Disposal is easy you just take the used oil wherever you bought the fresh oil. Autozone in my case.

[illiac786]

You forgot „properly dispose of old oil“. That alone justifies the trip to the shop for me.

[rnewme]

Most of places that sell you new oil will gladly take your old one.

[Amezarak]

There’s nothing hard about that, you take it to the closest auto parts store and dump it in the big tank they have for that.

[illiac786]

And they are going to let you do this for free instead of invoicing you for changing your oil. Very nice guys. Most of all because they have to pay to dispose of _your_ oil afterward.

Maybe car shops are philanthropic where you live, not so much where I live…

[asdff]

That is the easiest step among the pile of very easy steps.

[nothercastle]

Yeah by the time you go to a place that accepts you might as well have paid them to do the work.

[asdff]

Places accept oil for free all over the place. Its not a huge pain at all.

[paradox460]

Even easier, if you're willing to spend a little up front. Just get a vacuum pump extractor, purpose built for changing oil. You shove the hose down the dipstick hole, pump it a few times, and watch as your oil is removed from the car. No need to jack up the car or crawl under. When the thing starts to make bathtub drain noises, wiggle the hose around to make sure it was seated, pull it up out, and pour a new bottle of oil in. No mess no fuss

[mrheosuper]

i found those vaccuum pump never suck all of the oil completely. You can test it yourself, after sucking the oil, remove the drain plug and there is oil still dripping out

[xethos]

Now show the "Replace oil filter with new" step, ideally (like you mentioned) without lifting the vehicle

[Tildey]

Many oil filters these days are accessible from the top of the engine, and IME it’s possible to get under many SUVs/CUVs/trucks far enough to remove the filter/bung without lifting anyway. A set of drive-on ramps makes it kind of a non issue either way

[asdff]

That's how I do it on my vehicle, no lift no ramps. I just slide under on my back and everything is very accessible. Toyota still doing something right I guess.

[paradox460]

For all of my cars, its centrally located, near the dipstick.

[baby_souffle]

I know how to change the oil and do the breaks in my car.

I pay a mechanic to do them because I don't have a lift and disposing of used oil is a pain.

Kids these days are growing up into a world where breaks rarely need changing and oil is something you use in the kitchen, not a car.

[Amezarak]

You don’t need a lift, Walmart sells cheap ramps and many cars are high enough now you don’t even need those. Of course you can also use a jack and jack stands too, and almost every car comes now with a jack.

Used oil can be disposed of at almost any of the super abundant auto parts stores. You take it in, walk to the back, and dump it in the giant tank.

Are those really your reasons?

[baby_souffle]

> Are those really your reasons?

Yes. Space is an expensive luxury where I live. Doesn't matter _how cheap_ the ramp(s) and jack(s) and stand(s) are. I'm going to use them ~5 times a year and the rest of the time they're going to be taking up space that more utilized tools/materials/stuff can occupy.

The few $ i spend every ~ 4k miles on oil changes is worth it. Mechanic does it faster than I could because they have power lift and it's second nature to them. While they're under there, they call anything else that's worth it to my attention, too.

My next car will not need oil and then those cheap ramps will _really_ be a waste of space.

[xethos]

I can't say for everyone, but my current Mazda 3 (and I suspect my previous tenth-gen Civic) lifts to only one side at a time. There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides.

Suggests the jack is included only to change a tire at the side of the road, not for maintenance. You were right earlier though, inexpensive ramps for work would be fine.

[pwg]

> There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides.

That is not how you put the front up on stands with one jack and the manual's indicated tire change jack points. You jack up one side, using the "jack point" for changing that front tire on that side, insert one jack stand on that side, then you switch to the other side, jack up the other side using its approved "jack point", and insert the other jack stand on the other side.

[RayeEvtuch]

You raise one side, lower it onto the jack stand, remove the jack, then repeat for the other side. You don't raise the entire front of the car.

[paradox460]

Most auto part stores actually have an oil recycling and disposal service, just take your bottles there

[onemoresoop]

Maybe they have money. The kids who don’t have money and are somewhat more intelligent that the average learn that doing it themselves saves them some money they can spend on other things. There’s a cultural aspect of it that changes over time but that’s possibly influenced by changes in technology. When I was a a teenager you could comprehend how a car worked and have modest success debugging and fixing a car. I doubt that’s easy to do these days.

[AnimalMuppet]

I started going to the oil change places when I owned a car that I couldn't get at the oil filter. If I crawled under it, I could just barely touch it with my finger, but at the price of pulling a shoulder muscle. I still can't figure out how you're supposed to change the thing, but after one attempt, I was content to let someone else do it.

Yeah, I know, not very "hacker spirit" of me. But I've got a finite amount of that, and there are other places I want to spend it.

[onemoresoop]

While true, the computer as a general purpose machine has become a bloated incomprehensive, somewhat hostile affair to the user and that pushes newcomers away. There was a time when more newcomers stayed.

[sras-me]

I once asked a 20 something kid "do you know why computers are a big deal", and he said, "because it is a communication device"?

Computers are so good at being programmable that now a days people don't see it as a programmable device, but only as the thing that it is programmed to be. Today there are computers everywhere, but people see a workstatinon, a web server, a gaming rig, a tv, a phone etc, but never the computer is behind all those things.

[asdff]

And not only that but kids aren't even interested in computers any more. They want a cell phone and an ipad. That's even more abstracted.

[tracerbulletx]

There's still a pretty significant PC gaming culture.

[j45]

The underlying theme of knowing how things work, or how they are put together, at least conceptually to not get taken advantage of is what remained standing out to me.

There has been some thought about students who grew up mostly with touch screens and aren't that great with keyboards and mouse, although I'm not sure how widespread that might be.

Being a consumer, instead of a creator, or knowing how the creation is doen (what goes into it, how it could be maintained).

Optimistically, I'm looking forward to diy food (gardening) among other things being rediscovered if it isn't already being.