[skunkworker]

While in Iceland I learned from local fisherman who have conflicting thoughts on joining the EU. On one hand it could strengthen relations, but on the other they would not be able to preserve their fisheries from being over fished.

[Swenrekcah]

That is a myth propagated by the owners of the fishing companies. The real reason they oppose the EU is that they benefit immensely from having income and debts in Euros and dollars, while their expenses and interest bearing assets are in the weak and high-interest ISK.

Consider that icelandic mortgage interest rates are currently 9-11% but a few years ago they were 4% which was celebrated as historically extremely low rates.

[kreykjalin]

No, it’s a very real threat. Icelandic waters can only be fished by Icelandic vessels. That’s what the cod wars were about; protecting our right to be the only ones to fish our waters.

If we join the EU we’re pretty much guaranteed to lose this exclusive access to our waters, and that will be devastating for the economy, given how the fishing industry is one of very few industries keeping the economy afloat. Especially considering exports to other countries.

[chgs]

A high profile campaign during Brexit was about U.K. fishing. U.K. fishing rights were sold by local fishermen to large multinational companies who are more economically efficient (at least in the short term - sustainability is a bad word) many years ago.

Unlike Iceland, fishing is a negligible part of the U.K. economy (c0.1% vs c10%), yet was used by people who couldn’t give a stuff about fishing as a weapon.

[throwaway2037]

Have there been any studies on the effect upon local fishing industry when a country joins the EU? I bet that ECB has some studies about it. I could only find this admittedly weak article: https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/news-and-events/...

As I understand, part of the reason that Norway wanted to stay out of the EU was to fully control fishing in their territorial waters. I can understand why Iceland may wish to do the same.

[Swenrekcah]

Access to fishing and the quota system will definitely be one of if not the most important items to sort out, but it will not be devastating for the Icelandic economy if a portion of the quota is allocated to other EU members.

[MrDresden]

" but it will not be devastating for the Icelandic economy if a portion of the quota is allocated to other EU members."

I don't think you realise how small the Icelandic economy truly is, and how big an effect fluctuations in fishing quote already have on it.

[Swenrekcah]

Oh I realise how small it is, which is why it makes better sense to join the EU.

[MrDresden]

So you say, but could you please name some examples?

Iceland already has full access to the single market and Schengen. Historically during times of economic shocks, having our own currency has been useful as it allowed for more flexibility (i.e currency controls, self governance over central bank rates etc). Would taking up the Euro make the island more resilient or less able to respond to shocks? Economists seem to not fully agree on the matter.

I have personally never bought into the scare mongering by the island's quota kings - and fully support making the fishing quota a nationally own resource along with propper utlization fee structures - but having a partner who's doctorate is in fisheries management and having personally had a lifelong interest in the matter my self, I don't believe for a second that our fisheries would be better off dictated by Brussels. I reserve the right to change my mind when, and if, a deal is ever presented that indicates otherwise.

Tourism is already back to pre pandemic levels, so I don't see how anything would change there. Iceland is and always will be a very expensive destination for tourists. Most things need to be shipped in, and joining the Union will not change that in any way.

Aluminum brings in a decent amount, via large scale electrical usage contracts made with the state owned electrical company. While these deals are secret, it is public knowlege that they are tied to the global price of aluminum. Having income in a foreign currency but expenditure in the domestic currency is surely a good thing for the government and all of it's agencies.

Would the government have access to better loans if joining the Union and taking up the euro? Perhaps. However, the loan rating for the Icelandic government is already fairly good, sitting at A+, that I'm not sure that there would be a big impact.

Just to make it clear, I am all for the European Union (heck, I even moved from Iceland and live on mainland Europe) but joining it isn't such a clear cut black/white calculus as your comments have made it sound like.

[blibble]

exceptions to the "acquis" have not once been made to new members

you accept the entire body of law or you don't join

the UK and Norway both tried to negotiate away the fisheries policy when they submitted applications in the 70s

the UK "accepted" the CFP and and joined, Norway didn't and still remains outside

given then the odds of Iceland joining the EU are practically zero

[MrDresden]

That's not entirely correct.

The EU has an abysmal history of setting and managing ITQs in its waters, with Iceland having some of the best (but not at all perfect) managed waters in the world.

So there is plenty to be skeptical about when it comes to how negotiations would go on the matter.

[tugu77]

Um, joining the EU is not the same as joining the Euro. They can keep doing this exact thing after joining the EU if they keep their currency just like a few others are doing.

No, this is mostly about fishing rights afaik. Britain also kept having issues on that front.

[lispm]

> joining the EU is not the same as joining the Euro

Now, every country joining the EU is expected to join the Euro at some point.

https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-a...

"Who can join and when?

All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'."

[skissane]

> Now, every country joining the EU is expected to join the Euro at some point.

In theory yes, in practice no. The Swedish government has said repeatedly they don't plan to join despite being legally obliged to do so.

EU law says they have to do it, but it also says it can't be done without their active cooperation, and there is no penalty if they refuse to cooperate. The obligation is essentially toothless.

So Denmark having a formal opt-out from the Euro and Sweden not, is really more of a theoretical difference than a practically relevant one.

[lispm]

> The Swedish government has said repeatedly they don't plan to join despite being legally obliged to do so.

Sweden is long in the EU. CURRENTLY the expectation to new member states to join the Euro when joining the EU is different -> much higher.

Sweden was also long not in NATO. Now it is. Similar, support in polls for Euro introduction is rising.

[skissane]

> Sweden is long in the EU. CURRENTLY the expectation to new member states to join the Euro when joining the EU is different -> much higher.

I don't agree. It isn't just Sweden; Poland, Czechia, Hungary, Romania too. The time between EU accession and Euro adoption is normally a decade or more. If a government doesn't want to adopt the Euro, there are heaps of levers they can pull to slow the process down, and there is no way to punish a government for doing that. The easiest is that you have to join ERM II at least two years before adopting the Euro, but nobody can force you to join ERM II – so Sweden, Poland, Czechia, Hungary and Romania have all refused to join it. The only current ERM II members are Denmark (with a formal opt-out), and Bulgaria (which wants to adopt the Euro – it had hoped to do it 1 January 2025, but the ECB says their inflation is too high – 5.1%, the limit is 3.3%). If Bulgaria gets inflation down in 2025, they may succeed in joining on 1 January 2026.

When negotiating to join, the politicians say "sure, we promise we'll adopt the Euro", knowing that they'll likely be retired by the time joining the Euro is a real possibility.

> Sweden was also long not in NATO. Now it is. Similar, support in polls for Euro introduction is rising.

Yes, but that doesn't change the point – an EU member state (present or future) cannot be forced to adopt the Euro, it will only happen if the member state's government is willing, and they'll likely only be willing if it is sufficiently popular with their people.

[rich_sasha]

They could presumably strike some deal, if there is political will on both sides.

UK and Scandinavia got to opt out of the Euro, for example.

[smhg]

You mean Sweden and Denmark, not Scandinavia. And both have different ideas about joining the Eurozone. Norway isn't part of the EU. Finland is using the Euro.

[diplocorp]

Finland is Nordic but not Scandinavia. Because Norway is not an EU member, discussing a euro opt out doesn't make sense. Thus, OP is accurate in stating that Scandinavia got a Euro opt-out.

[Hamuko]

Sweden and Denmark are the only Scandinavian countries in the EU.

[xenospn]

What about whale hunting? I assume the EU would like a say about that as well?

[throw-qqqqq]

Are you perhaps thinking of the Faroe Islands and their killing of pilot whales? (Grindadráp, killing hundreds of whales)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands

[Electricniko]

Probably the news from a few weeks ago that the government issued whale hunting permits through 2029.