[__fst__]

EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall apart. My next car will be an EV but I have yet to find one that still comes with mechanical features (door handles, knobs/buttons), without a whole battery of surveillance/telemetry tech and (crossing fingers) exchangable batteries. Simple electric propulsion ...

[johnea]

I just bought a used 2023 Nissan Leaf.

Fully EV, real buttons and knobs, and of course the model is cancelled.

The original tracking was 2G cellular, later updated to 3G cellular. 2G is long depricated, and 3G is already shutdown in many places.

This is a great car! Which explains why it's no longer available. It doesn't meet modern american needs, like being at least as large as a small building, or having 0 visibility over the hood, or costing at least $75K. (p.s. I paid $15K for mine, with 18K miles on the odometer and 150 miles of battery range)

But if you're into retro, like buttons and knobs, I highly recommend it...

p.s. I have to wonder if the data breach doesn't affect ICE cars as well? Would they use a separate surveilance system?

[grakker]

I bought a used '14 Leaf in '16. It has been a great car with very little battery degradation. Sure, I'm not going to be taking it on any long trips, but for 90% of my driving it is great. I paid $11k for it. Best car purchase I've made in 30+ years of car ownership.

[dboreham]

That's amazing considering 2023 was only last year.

[steelframe]

I've owned two LEAFs. Fantastic vehicle. I only got rid of it when I realized all the cars around me were only getting bigger and heavier, and I felt I needed to get an SUV to defend myself against that.

[geor9e]

Just to be clear, this breach mostly affects non-EV cars. Even my stick shift, manual window crank car came with a hidden cellular data modem, collecting my GPS location by default.

[Rebelgecko]

In a lot of cars you can pull the fuse that powers the cellular modem without any side effects

[1oooqooq]

you're taking to a bunch of old men shouting (literally) at clouds

[mulmen]

Pulling a fuse in a car is peak old maning.

[doodlebugging]

Peak old manning would involve locating all the information needed to be able to identify and remove all the components used to facilitate the tracking (or other bullshit that complicates vehicle ownership) and then following the documented procedures and updating other like-minded owners on vehicle forums so that everyone else can do the same.

In the process some forum threads would pick up hundreds of posts over a decade or more so that removal of every nut, bolt, screw, plastic plug, etc is documented with photos, allowing anyone with the vehicle to see exactly how to take ownership of the vehicle from the manufacturer.

True old-school old manning involves not only removal of all the bullshit, but also covers all cosmetic changes to the vehicle that would be needed to eliminate all signs that any of the offending components were ever installed and would include things like how to accomplish all the trim and body work necessary to permanently fill all the holes in the vehicle like antenna penetrations through the vehicle body and plastic trim mods to fill holes that formerly held buttons or switches that no longer exist.

In the process, old-school old manning would attack the software used in the vehicle, removing all the offending functionality with a custom flash tool so that the only software running on the vehicle after all the mods are completed would be that which controls and monitors engine and transmission functionality since that is actually the only software on a vehicle that adds value by allowing the vehicle owner to track operating efficiency in real time.

[natch]

One person’s useless extra is another person’s collision avoidance system, AC, music system… I like extras when they make sense.

[behnamoh]

I hate touchscreen buttons too and unfortunately all EVs I've seen have adopted that. I wonder if there are EVs with good old fashioned mechanical buttons.

[mhandley]

The Polestar 2 is pretty good in this regard. All the most important things are on the steering wheel stalks, steering wheel buttons, and a few buttons for things like demist, play/pause and volume control on the centre console. There's still a lot on the touchscreen, including climate control, but it seems to hit a pretty good balance for me (and I'm not a fan on car touchscreens).

[jlund-molfese]

I love my Polestar 2. But there's gotta be a better way to do touchscreen climate controls. I've had mine for 8 months now, and had to google in order to figure out that the car had dual-climate zones—it's really hard to tell from the swipe-up page, so I just assumed it didn't have that feature for a while. Plus, I don't feel comfortable changing the climate settings while driving, because I might hit the wrong touchscreen button when I'm not looking at the screen.

But hey, maybe if I wait around another 5-10 years, there'll be more than 3 mainstream electric sedan options available for the US market and I'll be able to find the perfect car.

[phatskat]

Recently drove a Dodge Hornet rental and it had a slew of physical climate buttons, most of which didn’t make sense or didn’t control what I wanted. In the course of trying to just turn on the defrost from the touchscreen, I turned on the heated steering wheel, stopped the airflow to the cabin, adjusted the driver side temperature way higher than I wanted, and probably subscribed to Disney+

[wkat4242]

Safety agencies in Europe are already pushing to bring these back: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-ba...

[natch]

Many EVs have a sensible amount of buttons, and you generally don’t need the touchscreen for driving or much else for that matter.

I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting. Around here (where we have many immigrants and some odd practices) I’ve seen people with a towel hanging over their screen while driving, to protect it like a dust cover I guess.

The one thing you might argue I do need from my screen is the speed, which is very easy to see and usually not needed in the flow of traffic.

The outcry against screens is just misinformed imho. My car has plenty of mechanical buttons.

[tremon]

I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting

At least you're still acknowledging the abysmal state of modern cars by including this statement. Why on earth would anyone expect otherwise from a car?

[bdangubic]

if you are ever in the middle of highway (especially if you are traveling with loved ones) when your EV suddenly reboots you will understand why one does not expect shit to work… the anxiety is unlike most thing one can experience… I think 100% reverse of your comment but talking from a different real experiences.

EVs are computers on wheels, expecting them to work during reboot is not unlike expecting vim to work during a reboot :)

[Dylan16807]

I'm pretty sure they're talking about rebooting the console system, not the entire car.

EVs are not computers, they have computers. The controllers that make it go should stay on during a "sudden reboot". Expecting them to keep working is like expecting my coolant pump to work during a reboot, not vim.

[mulmen]

I would expect the drivetrain components (including computers) to be essentially bulletproof and only the unnecessary components like infotainment and maybe the dashboard displays to even have the option of crashing.

[bdangubic]

you are 100% right in theory. in practice the car is the computer. when my 2014 tesla s rebooted while I was going like 85mph on the highway it is a moment I’ll never forget. the car is running but everything is dead, quiet, have no idea what the speed is, all systems are shut down, a/c is out (I was in the middle of a desert in Utah)… EVERYTHING feels wrong and every instinct you have tells you to pull over immediately. no chance I would drive any distance other than maybe a quick 1-mile radius errand in that state of the car

[natch]

Mine doesn’t reboot unless I reboot it.

[natch]

What? This car is the far opposite end of the spectrum from abysmal.

[behnamoh]

What model is your car?

[natch]

3

[Loudergood]

Both my Bolt(RIP) and my Ioniq 5 have mechanical buttons for the most common things(media controls/HVAC)

[nunodonato]

Kia/hyundai, best EVs imho

[Lio]

Kia is the company that gathers “information about your race or ethnicity, religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sex life and political opinions” and “trade union membership”.

I don't want to have anything to do with a company like that.

[prmoustache]

You can convert an old car to EV. There are comoanies speciliazing in this, mostly to convert classics that needed a ton of maintenance.

Expensive yes but might be worth it if you value your privacy.

[geor9e]

How is a complete rebuild of a car your go-to solution to an easily accessible cellular modem powered through the fuse box

[prmoustache]

Is it the case? Or is the fuse shared for something else that happens to be useful/important for the operation of the vehicle?

I'd be surprised if there was a dedicated fuse for only a modem really, especially in an EV or hybrid.

[AngryData]

I agree it shouldn't be necessary, but its not like replacing a motor and drivetrain on a vehicle is some super rare thing either, and often still far cheaper than buying a brand new car.

[bdangubic]

me thinks anyone with a cell phone in this year of our Lord 2024 should not say they worry about privacy in any context. instead of converting old car to EV I’d start by converting a rotary phone to a portable one :)

[whimsicalism]

only worth it if you really value the environment, your privacy, but not your life