[multimoon]

Where you’re going to find disagreement with a significant portion of the population is if fifteen seconds of a low rumble of a car passing by is “disturbing the peace”. You cannot expect complete silence at all hours of the day, and to do so is naive.

Highways and semis create by far the most noise pollution. Dogs bark, people have parties outside, etc. The world is not a place requiring sterilization of the senses.

[munk-a]

Do those noises add anything though? I feel like if my life had been entirely devoid of "vroom vroom" sounds I wouldn't have missed anything important.

Noise pollution from dogs and people having a party outside is an acceptable side effect of a party - but it's not an aspect of a party that I find important. If it was trivial to make sounds from my house end at my property line I'd be happy to do so.

[ssl-3]

I live near a busy intersection that has a lot of semi truck traffic (and passenger car traffic, alike).

I don't notice fifteen seconds of low rumble just cruising by -- that's not the problem at all.

The problem is that of the intermittent noise of the occasional loud vehicle accelerating from a stop, and/or exiting a turn.

[stonesthrowaway]

> Highways and semis create by far the most noise pollution.

Semis conduct work and generally don't drive through residential neighborhoods. Intentionally loud vehicles seem to prefer residential neighborhoods and produce no positive work but annoy others and cause unnecessary pollution ( both noise and air ). Sirens for police cars and emergencies are necessary. Insecure people overcompensating with loud cars and motorcycles are unnecessary.

> The world is not a place requiring sterilization of the senses.

In no sense does banning intentionally loud vehicles "sterilize" the world of sound. As you noted, dogs bark, people have parties outside, etc.

People who drive loud vehicles or motorcycles, especially through residential areas, should be fined for the 1st offense and imprisoned for the second offense. And mechanics who help create such cars should have their businesses shut.

The people with these loud vehicles brought the hate on themselves by intentionally annoying people. If people like loud cars, then they should drive them in specifically designated race tracks.

[multimoon]

What a narrow view of the world. I’m sure that there are things that you do that others find irritating, that doesn’t mean your hobby has any less merit or value to you.

I’m also sure you’re conflating the one or two obnoxious vehicles you’ve heard into “any vehicle that I can hear at all is now bad”. As many others pointed out - motorcycles is even mostly considered a point of road safety to be loud.

The resistance you get to your argument is because instead of simply asking your neighbor to start their car quietly (most new cars have valvetronic exhausts and can do this) you immediately jump to “I want to jail another person and take away their freedom because they’ve inconvenienced me momentarily”.

[stonesthrowaway]

> I’m also sure you’re conflating the one or two obnoxious vehicles you’ve heard into “any vehicle that I can hear at all is now bad”

That must be why I specifically stated police sirens, semis, etc are fine? I've nothing against "loud" cars that have a purpose. I've something against people intentionally modifying their cars to be loud.

> The resistance you get to your argument is because instead of simply asking your neighbor to start their car quietly (most new cars have valvetronic exhausts and can do this) you immediately jump to “I want to jail another person and take away their freedom”.

You really think I'm talking about people starting their cars? You know what people are complaining about. You are being intentionally dense here.

Let me guess, you make a living modifying cars to be extremely loud. Right?

[multimoon]

>Let me guess, you make a living modifying cars to be extremely loud. Right?

I don’t no, I work in a quiet office building.

> That must be why I specifically stated police sirens, semis, etc are fine? I've nothing against "loud" cars that have a purpose. I've something against people intentionally modifying their cars to be loud

You’re assuming that the intention of people modifying their car and/or buying one of the perfectly legal cars that comes with an above average exhaust sound output is specifically to spite and or annoy you, which it is not - the world doesn’t revolve around you. As another commenter pointed out, it’s done because they enjoy the sound for themselves and their own pleasure while driving. This is the exact behavior why this argument can’t ever be had - because we can’t ever have a discussion on “okay maybe we should set a reasonable noise cap, and you can make your car sound different and enjoy the sound if that’s your hobby, but your cap is <a reasonable number>” - you just immediately go straight to “nothing and if you do anything, straight to jail”. Thankfully I live in America which was founded based on the concept of freedom.

I’d also like to point out that the vast majority of people driving cars with exhausts (myself included) you don’t even notice because we’re driving them in a silenced mode, or just driving normally which doesn’t create enough exhaust flow to make a significant sound. The people who drive the obnoxiously loud straight piped mustang through your neighborhood at unreasonable hours give the rest of us a bad name - and that is already likely illegal in your cities local noise ordinance.

[stonesthrowaway]

> I don’t, no I work in a quiet office building.

But you work in some capacity with loud cars. Right? Why else would you be so defensive?

> As another commenter pointed out, it’s done because they enjoy the sound for themselves and their own pleasure while driving.

As I said, they could enjoy it driving on race tracks designated for such things. They also enjoy annoying others with said sound. Lets be honest here. That's why they drive through residentia neighborhoods disturbing the peace.

> This is the exact behavior why this argument can’t ever be had

An argument can't be had because you are not an honest debater. You have an agenda. Anyone can read this comment thread and see it. You are the problem. Not everyone else. Okay pal.

> Thankfully I live in America which was founded based on the concept of freedom.

Where do you think I live and all the people who despise people like you live. Good ol' America. Yes, the concept of freedom must be why smoking is banned in most public spaces? Why there are noise ordinances in most places. You have to be one sick puppy to think the founder's concept of freedom includes morons disturbing the people while they sleep in their homes. Here is a another concept of freedom". Freedom from unnecessary noise pollution.

[multimoon]

> But you work in some capacity with loud cars. Right? Why else would you be so defensive?

Wrong again, cars - not just exhausts - have been a hobby since I was a child, like for most people fond of cars. My field of occupation is wholly unrelated to cars.

> An argument can't be had because you are not an honest debater. You have an agenda. Anyone can read this comment thread and see it. You are the problem. Not everyone else. Okay pal.

Im not sure how you can call yourself a honest debater when your solution to an annoyance was to jail people. I’m not sure what your point is here - we both have an agenda in this argument, I’m willing to listen and accept that there is examples of people that fall into the group I’m defending who create a problem, I don’t think you’re willing to listen and/or accept alternative ways of thinking as you’ve demonstrated by seemingly trying to personally attack me.

> Where do you think I live and all the people who despise people like you live. Good ol' America. Yes, the concept of freedom must be why smoking is banned in most public spaces? Why there are noise ordinances in most places. You have to be one sick puppy to think the founder's concept of freedom includes morons disturbing the people while they sleep in their homes. Here is an another concept of freedom". Freedom from unnecessary noise pollution.

The purpose of my comment beyond the pun was to point out that it was founded on reasonable laws that allowed people to do as they wish as long as it didn’t harm others - and I find it seriously doubtful that you’d even hear me driving through your neighborhood - because my car will be driving at a reasonable residential speed with the exhaust valves closed which is what almost everyone does. Since you seemingly ignored my last point I’ll remind you - making an obscene amount of noise driving down your residential road is likely still illegal under your local cities ordinance.

I’m not sure why it’s such a difficult point to convey that there are far more potentially loud and modified vehicles than you realize, and you never notice because we’re reasonable and respectful and not intentionally making noise - almost every sports car has valvetronic exhausts now and you can chose the sound output of the car with a button press that way you can enjoy it when appropriate, and silence it when not. I agree with you that if someone is being disrespectful using their car, then that is a problem the same as if a neighbor decided to mow their grass at 3am and is unrelated to the car - it all probably still violates the local noise ordinance. The law you’re asking for already exists and the problem is the person not the vehicle.

[lotsofpulp]

Surely, most would agree there is a difference between a productive activity making noise and making noise specifically to disturb?

[lcnPylGDnU4H9OF]

That's a false dichotomy. What about a recreational activity that has no intention to be disruptive?

[lotsofpulp]

I’m not buying that people modify their vehicles to be extra noisy for any reason other than to impose their presence on others.

[multimoon]

This is extremely short sighted. I’ve owned several cars that I have modified or have factory exhausts that are audible, and it’s always been purely because I enjoy the sound, but I’ve never made them obnoxious or deafening.

Car guys don’t do things to annoy other people, they do it because it brings them happiness and joy, just like anyone’s hobby does for them. Thinking that everything in the world that disturbs you was done in malice is a pretty dismal worldview.

[bscphil]

> I’ve never made them obnoxious or deafening

This reminds me of how cigarette smokers famously don't know how horrible they smell to everyone around them, and think it's "fine", something they do to bring themselves "happiness and joy", and so forth. Maybe if the people around you who aren't car enthusiasts find your car obnoxious and deafening, it's just obnoxious and deafening.

Personally, I'd settle for a compromise where no one is allowed to drive one of these vehicles down a street with private residences on it after 10 p.m.

[ssl-3]

Man, the smoking thing.

When I was a kid, everyone smoked everywhere. And I spent decades smoking cigarettes, or cigars. I'd quit for a few months or a year at different times, but in my corner of society I was still around tobacco smoke even when I wasn't smoking myself. It was impossible to evade.

Because I was always exposed to it, I never really became aware of the stink.

I switched to vapes this time 'round. And unlike other times in the past when I didn't smoke tobacco, public smoking is pretty much forgotten in my corner of society here in 2024.

So now, at this ripe middle age, I've finally become aware of the stink.

And I'm certainly not going to go on some anti-smoking crusade, but... Dang, some people who smoke really stink. It's an effervescent odor that just radiates off of them in seemingly every direction, and tickles the insides of your nose in a bad way, and you can detect it sometimes from twenty feet away or more.

I'm really sorry to have done that to others. I had no idea it was like this.

[lcnPylGDnU4H9OF]

They enjoy it and they don't care that you don't like it.

[mPReDiToR]

With motorcycles it's of incalculable benefit to be heard early on because we're rarely seen until the crash.

[djbusby]

Loud bikes are not safer. 50+ years of crash data shows this.

[thrill]

I'm unaware of motorcycle crash data that detailed measured exhaust decibel levels.

[multimoon]

The purpose of an exhaust is not to disturb.

I think you’re straw manning my argument, where I conceded that absolutely some people go too far and are obnoxious. The civic at 2am example is a great one, street racing late at night is another, and I agree with you that’s unnecessary.

My argument was simply that I have yet to see an implementation in proposal that stops the above, without also making the factory exhaust that’s barely above road noise level on your average sports car illegal. Where do you draw the line? How do you get people to agree on where the line is? Do you make exceptions for things like performance vehicles/supercars? You’re not going to find consensus among the population besides for most of us it’s a non-issue that nobody even thinks about.

[bryanlarsen]

I'm not sure what's so hard about the line. Most municipalities already have the line well defined. They have noise limits that are different in residential and industrial areas, and are lower during normal sleep hours.

If it means that you can't stomp on the accelerator in a residential area in your stock performance vehicle at night, so be it. Yes, some legally stock vehicles are loud when driven hard. So don't drive them hard when that's inappropriate.

[multimoon]

Yes - I agree with you. Some of the commenters above have conflated “an annoying person drives a straight piped mustang through my neighborhood” into “every car is bad”.