[lolcatstevens]

Typed like a rich white guy. There's a real barrier in our profession -- how many women are in your office? How many black people? -- and why do you think that is? How comfortable do you think your workplace is to a minority or woman? So how are we to study the effect of minorities on open-source when minorities don't want to work in open-source. It's not the money that's holding them back.

Real-world measure of goodness? Come on man. Do you hang out with women are colored folk or folks who came up differently than you did? It's nice, right? It's interesting to hear other folks's points of views, right? Maybe you even rethink some things you took for granted.

Have you never been around brogrammers? Have you never seen a group of dudes spiral into 4chan?

This is common sense, yes. Being a person and interacting with people is my real world measure of goodness.

[batista]

>how many women are in your office?

Speaking for my previous company: 3, for a 12 strong team.

>How many black people?

0

>-- and why do you think that is?*

For black people it's because my country never sent slave merchants to bring black people to work here as slaves, so we haven't artificially built a black population like you did.

For women it's because we never get any competent candidates to hire, if we ever even are approached from a woman applicant.

Mid-nineties, in my university for CS, women were 1/6 to men. In the Math and Applied Math departments it was 1/1. In biology and medicine it was 2/1. In Literature it was 3/1.

And, no, it wasn't about "geeks" being sexist, and that BS.

The notion of the "computer geek" wasn't even known at the time, the jobs most of us expected to work were normal office jobs alongside other office workers, and all the students in the campus (from all departments) were more or less the same (kids just out of high school). Women just weren't interested enough to put CS in their application forms for college.

So there you have it.

[lolcatstevens]

Do you realize the mid-90s was almost 20 years ago? Are you only hiring 40 year olds? No significant minority population in your country?

If you don't think the brotastic world fostered in our industry is relevant, well, I guess (like the author) trying to expand our profession and tone down male-centric views just aren't for you. Kudos to you, I guess.

[hynek]

The success of outreach programs prove your “Women just weren't interested enough to put CS in their application forms for college.” wrong. Unless women changed significantly since the mid-nineties which I doubt.

[batista]

>The success of outreach programs prove your “Women just weren't interested enough to put CS in their application forms for college.” wrong.

Actually it reinforces my point.

If it took "outreach programs" to make them take interest doesn't it mean that they _weren't_ interested enough in CS in the first place?

[lolcatstevens]

"If it took "outreach programs" to make them take interest doesn't it mean that they _weren't_ interested enough in CS in the first place?"

Why do you think that is? The money isn't good enough? The life and hours of a developer aren't good enough? Women aren't capable of understanding programming?

Step back, man. You read like yet another HN poster.

[hynek]

You could put it that way. The point here is that the threshold of interest needed to apply is much higher for women than for men.

These barriers are real but you, as a man, can’t really judge that because you hadn’t to cope with them. You could only try to talk to women (stress is on plural) and try to empathize.