[quandrum]

Due process for employment is probably more important than fair pay in most union contracts.

Your argument is in fact that exact same one that was used to argue against due process in legal proceedings. "In reality it doesn't play out and you get this group of criminals running free on legal technicalities."

If you are in a union shop and have a large contingent of unproductive employees, it happens for the same reason as non-union shops. You have bad management. Just Cause is almost entirely asking management to do a little paperwork and a little planning, things that are supposed to be their job anyway.

[infecto]

What argument have I made other than a question? I would like to see data how it plays out. Now I have some ideas of how it plays out but it would be interesting if there was a way to have a test/control group in these types of contracts. I find the struggles here interesting and its fun to watch them play out.

[morgante]

Incorrectly firing a high performer is nowhere near the harm of incorrectly jailing an innocent man.

[kortilla]

> Your argument is in fact that exact same one that was used to argue against due process in legal proceedings. "In reality it doesn't play out and you get this group of criminals running free on legal technicalities."

Dumb comparison. Losing a job is not the same as losing a legal action. You can’t just go get a different life if you’re convicted of robbery.

> it happens for the same reason as non-union shops. You have bad management.

No, sometimes employees are just bad and work the system to keep the job as long as possible with no intention of improving.

[drawkward]

Where is this legendary employer who instantly hires all takers, no questions asked?

[kortilla]

It doesn’t exist and doesn’t need to. The current job market makes it abundantly clear that people are able to get some form of employment easily, even if it’s not what they want.

The point is that the comparison to due process is shockingly stupid. If the government imprisons you, you are done. Your life in civilization is over for the duration of your incarceration and you have no other options.

Anyone who thinks due process against the monopoly of violence is the same as due process for a payment from a company is completely tone deaf and has never dealt with the impact of government imprisonment.

Being unemployed indefinitely is far better than imprisonment.

[FredPret]

The actual development of capitalism around the world has shown that when business is thriving, there tends to be lots of employers willing to mop up any excess labour.

We’ve seen a ton of automation and offshoring for centuries now but employment around the world just keeps improving.

[drawkward]

And yet, we have a positive unemployment rate!

[FredPret]

True but that’s inevitable. A certain % of people are always going to be in the process of switching jobs.

[drawkward]

Which is why I reponded to the commenter who said

>Dumb comparison. Losing a job is not the same as losing a legal action. You can’t just go get a different life if you’re convicted of robbery.

Because, as you just admitted, you can't just go get a different job if you're unfairly fired.