[arrobbiato]

This seems extremely negative on China, and echoes a lot of web content that frankly smacks of anti-Chinese propaganda. To be clear, I'm not accusing you of being a propagandist and in fact I believe you are 100% sincere, and I'm glad you've provided your opinion here. But the similarity of your description to the various China-bashing outlets is striking and makes me question the sources of it.

[contingencies]

My opinions are my own, based on decades of experience since first living in China in 2001. I last lived there in 2022. I actually run businesses, and my social networks consist of disparate experiences, which probably means my view of things is more nuanced and rationally founded than fly-in journalists or those watching only the statistics, albeit necessarily only a "partial truth" (nobody knows exactly what is going on across the country, not even the government). Perhaps if you raised concerns regarding a specific point it would be possible to respond more fully.

[arrobbiato]

You clearly have a wealth of expertise that I don't, and because of that, I again thank you for your original comment. It's probably better for me to simply consider your point of view rather than try to question it using second-hand data.

[somelamer567]

And why do you suppose these ostensible 'China bashers' believe what they do? Do you believe that people just wake up one morning and say to themselves: 'I'm going to go online and hate on China today' for absolutely no reason at all?

[pessimizer]

They're literally inundated with the message in all media. The US government spread rumors about Chinese vaccines it knew to be safe to convince people not to take them. The US has budgeted 1.6 billion dollars for propaganda activity against China.

[surfpel]

The coordination and omnipresence of the western media is the most impressive thing I’ve ever experienced. Once you catch them all lying about incontestable truths in unison, the charade falls apart.

Americans grow up in this soup. They even have rebellious media companies that say edgy things, but all tow the party line. It’s genuinely incredible.

[evulhotdog]

Out of pure curiosity, do you have a few examples of this that you can cite and provide indisputable information to demonstrate it?

[surfpel]

It happens all the time and it would be quite a bit of work to prepare a list to the level of un-disputability on my part (which seems to be required as Hacker News is feeling very pro-establishment at the moment), but a recent example of this is the failure of the Iron Dome system against Iranian rockets.

Videos online very, very clearly showed many rockets bypassing the system, with some interceptions in the video that made it all the more obvious how many rockets were not being intercepted. All western media claimed the Iron Dome was exceedingly successful and blocked 90%+ of the missiles. This was also not corroborated by non-western sources. It wasn't until Planet Labs released evidence of dozens of strikes on an airbase that this specific messaging decreased.

At that point, they didn't acknowledge that 'error', but instead shifted the narrative to say that the attack, which Iran gave several hours warning of and had explicitly designed not to take lives, had failed because nobody got killed.

Israel coverage in general is a great topic to witness this phenomenon.

[mitthrowaway2]

That's not nearly the impression that I got from reading the GP comment. Did you mean to reply to a different one?

If anything, it seemed rosy; for example I was under the impression that China had cracked down on VPNs. But if GP says they're still widely accessible, then it leaves me with the impression that China has more free access to information than I previously thought.

[sdwr]

"High profile coverups, the national pension fund has been emptied. Chinese with money seek to escape overseas. The education system is terrible."

The picture being painted is of a doomed, sinking ship.

[mitthrowaway2]

It strikes me as a picture filled with both positives and negatives, and the point being made is not that China is a doomed sinking ship, but that the challenges it is dealing with aren't analogous to the ones faced by the US in the 19th century. (I don't know if wealthy 19th-century Americans did or did not aspire to move their wealth to Europe or send their kids abroad for school, but at least, the argument being made by the poster suggests a belief that they were not).

[t-3]

Not a great picture, but also not really any different than the US or other western countries.

[surfpel]

China has much more freedom than I was led to believe growing up. The restrictions seem pretty neatly constrained to things that are genuinely threats to public safety, “social harmony”, or national security.

It seems scary until you think about the kind of information warfare that a certain cross pacific neighbor likes to employ, frequently.

[Prbeek]

1.6 billion dollars for propaganda is a lot of money. https://responsiblestatecraft.org/china-cold-war-2669160202/

[rootusrootus]

> anti-Chinese propaganda

Please tell me you're kidding. There is way, way more pro-Chinese propaganda online than anti-Chinese. So overt at this point that you'd have to be willfully blind not to notice.

[arrobbiato]

I don't use TikTok, which might explain the discrepancy.

[rootusrootus]

Either do I, as I was born a few decades too late for that. But there is a lot on Reddit and other popular forums. And on HN, even in this very discussion.

[wumeow]

Especially in this very discussion.

[WitCanStain]

What is the difference between propaganda and someone expressing their view?

[rootusrootus]

Whether it is a subsidized comment, for starters.