[cynicalpeace]

According to this article, it's been (sorta) reproduced once, which is better than most studies. About 40-60% of scientific studies are not reproducible.

Given that, I'd want to see more reproductions.

Also, I'm very annoyed by our American culture which tries to fix problems with drugs, rather than preventing them from happening in the first place with good diet, exercise, sleep and stress management.

[Zelphyr]

I think the food manufacturers are culpable here, and "manufacturer" is really the best word to use. They're more like chemists cobbling together edible compounds than farmers growing things that provide nutrition.

[cynicalpeace]

Absolutely. And every time I come on HN to point out processed foods are bad, I always get the feigned confusion "But are cooked carrots a processed food"

[nemomarx]

A drug that reduces appetite is kinda tackling good diet, at least.

[cynicalpeace]

Keyword is "kinda"

[consteval]

> good diet, exercise, sleep and stress management

The problem is these are individual solutions. We have a societal-wide problem. These solutions are therefore useless. You can't solve societal problems with individual solutions.

For example, I can't say "people shouldn't steal because it's immoral". It's true, and for me or you that might be enough to keep us from stealing. This is an individual solution.

The societal solution is how do you demotivate people from stealing? Now we're not talking about morals. We're talking about economics, poverty, crime prevention, the criminal-industrial complex, etc.

If you're waiting around for the day that American "culture" magically reverses itself and everyone wants to be healthy by their own accord, it will never come.

If you want an example of changing "culture", look at smoking. Hint: it has nothing to do with "being healthier". The changes we made were not about that.

[cynicalpeace]

Culture definitely changes, or else there would be no different cultures.

I like bottom-up way to approach it, rather than only top-down via policy.

Be healthy yourself and hopefully that bleeds out to your family and friends. If enough people do it, you have a different culture. Certainly possible given all the cultures that do prioritize these things.

[consteval]

> If enough people do it, you have a different culture

This just straight up does not work. I will be blunt - you are not suggesting a solution, you're suggesting a delusion.

This "do nothing and hope it works" approach is not novel. It has been our one singular approach to the obesity epidemic. Has it been working? We have many decades of evidence now. No, it hasn't.

I could maybe see your perspective better if what you're suggesting is not already tried and tested. When you do something for decades at a time and the problem doesn't improve, but in fact gets worse, you have to face the reality that what you're doing just doesn't work.

> Certainly possible given all the cultures that do prioritize these things

They really don't. They just have less access to food.

Some, like Japan, get around obesity by instead having some of the highest tobacco use in the world in combination with a stressed-out population.

As fun as it sounds to reintroduce smoking culture to offset obesity, I think it might make more sense to give people access to safe drugs that help regulate their propensity for overconsumption.

[cynicalpeace]

> This just straight up does not work. I will be blunt - you are not suggesting a solution, you're suggesting a delusion.

Exercise and diet do work. Next!

> They really don't. They just have less access to food.

I lived in a fit, rural area in a "third world country" (Colombia) for 4 years, still spend several months there out of the year. The people in my town are not starving for food. In fact it is abundant and everyone has a garden and everyone walks every day and everyone knows their neighbors. The food is entirely local and shipped in from the surrounding farms every morning.

Your perspective is informed by looking at people like numbers, statistics and robots. But the truth is that humans are dynamic, social, organisms that are very capable of changing their ways.

[consteval]

> Exercise and diet do work. Next!

First off this "Next!" nonsense is annoying. Second off you're not understanding what I'm saying.

Just because something works FOR YOU does not mean this is a systemic solution!

To be perfectly clear, what you're suggesting is not novel. In fact, it's so tired I don't even know why you bother to speak it. This has been our solution for the entirety the problem has existed.

Well, is obesity fixed? No, right? So, your solution doesn't fucking work. I don't know what to tell you, open your eyes and look around.

> looking at people like numbers, statistics and robots

Yeah buddy, that's called statistical analysis. Not whatever the fuck you're doing. Sorry, I'm trying to use my brain here and come up with real solutions, I hope you can forgive me!

Oh but the people in your town in Colombia are doing good, that's just great. Clearly, you've cracked the code to solving obesity based off that. All those fatasses just need to garden!

Next up: do people know stealing is bad? Why don't we just completely do away with law enforcement and just tell people stealing is bad? I mean, it works for me! After all, humans are dynamics and yadda yadda yadda some other unscientific bullshit I pulled from my ass. Let's just ban door locks, too!

[cynicalpeace]

> This has been our solution for the entirety the problem has existed.

lol us American's eat like crap and barely walk. It has not been the solution in this country. Just because the solution is simple does not mean it is easy.

Stealing is a great example of a cultural problem. Did you know some countries are more dangerous than others? In fact, did you know in some communities stealing doesn't happen very much or at all?

Why? The people decided to behave better via mechanisms not finely levered by drugs or pharmaceutical policy. Individual behavior, cultural upbringing, economic circumstance, physical environment, etc. These things are way more important than any drug or policy and minimally impacted by them.

The rest of your argument is just ad hominem. Next!

[Tokkemon]

These aren't preventative drugs, they are to treat people who are already fat.

[baq]

Looks like this is not exactly true given they reduce cravings.

[cynicalpeace]

Where did I say it was a preventative drug?

[zpeti]

I agree with your sentiment, but frankly human nature just doesn’t work that way. We don’t have self control. We weren’t evolved for a world of abundance. This is no one’s fault, and it’s everywhere, china is getting fatter than most countries now.

Realistically, ozempic is a miracle and it seems to be a solution to numerous issues of our world.

It would be nice if it wasn’t so, but apart from the 10% of people who can control themselves (which also causes psychological issues btw), most people just can’t.

[cynicalpeace]

I reject your assumption that "This is no one’s fault, and it’s everywhere, china is getting fatter than most countries now."

It's the food industrial complex's fault, along with many others (politicians, individuals without self control, etc)

I lived in rural Colombia for 4 years. People had access to the junk food, but it wasn't consumed very much because the veggies and meat are all produced locally and super tasty and cheap. And the local dishes were extremely meat and veggie based.

Oh, and most people know how to cook there.

It's not a fact of human nature to be unhealthy. It's a fact of modern culture.

[apwell23]

It makes your poop sit in your tummy and rot

[consteval]

This isn't true

[apwell23]

which part?

[consteval]

all of it

[apwell23]

their own pamphlet is wrong ?

"Taking the medication could be linked to ileus, a condition where the intestines temporarily stop functioning. Increase risk of Gastroparesis"

[thefz]

Lol, no. There are countries in which obesity is nonexistent.

[cthalupa]

Obesity is on the rise in a huge percentage of developed nations, and not just western ones. Even South Korea has seen a huge spike over the past decade - the amount of obese men /doubled/ between 2009 and 2019. It went up 3x in China between 1993 and 2015, and is on track to be over 20% by the end of the decade. Japan is increasing at a much slower rate, but it's still going up. 25% of people in India are overweight, with that number and morbid obesity numbers also increasing.

Basically every country sees obesity rise as the people gain access to the modern diet.

[thefz]

I don't care obesity is rising here and there, the fact that it is culturally induced remains, as it remains that a change lifestyle is the largest defense against obesity. Enjoy the magic pill for the rest of your life.

[cthalupa]

I'm fairly confident in my ability to get back in the same routine I had in my 20s and take myself off of it, but if staying on it is what it takes for me to remain fit and eating well, then sure. I don't mind giving myself an injection twice a week in exchange for good health.

If not needing it makes you feel superior, I'm glad you've found a source of self validation.

[thefz]

Imagine your reaction if smokers were to make the same point and voila, this is how ridiculous it sounds.

[cynicalpeace]

There are places in the world you could point to that are not obese and in fact has decreased. So it's certainly possible to emulate that.

[cthalupa]

Where? In Japan, obesity among men has increased by 1.5x over the past several decades. It remains quite low, but the rate is still increasing year over year (slower with women). Vietnam, a country with one of the lowest obesity rates in the world is seeing an increase - the overweight and obesity rate has basically tripled since the early 2000s.

[cynicalpeace]

Huntington, West Virginia: https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/01/27/fattest-c...

The solution involved exercise and diet, surprise surprise. It's not magic or some law of nature that people will only get more fat and unhealthy.

If we think that way, then it will surely happen though.

[consteval]

Typically, because less food is available in day-to-day life.

If I sold cigs on every street corner in a "skinny" country like Japan, how confident are you that I wouldn't create a smoking culture?

This is not a matter of motivation or discipline. Such thinking is short-sighted.

[cthalupa]

> If I sold cigs on every street corner in a "skinny" country like Japan, how confident are you that I wouldn't create a smoking culture?

Considering Japan has long been one of the highest per capita consumers of tobacco, apparently it's quite likely ;)