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by mmooss 624 days ago
AFAIK, the US and UK value Diego Garcia because currently there aren't geographical alternatives for that base. Where else could they put it that would have the same benefits?
3 comments

The lease expires in 2123. The militarily strategic landscape then is pretty much unknowable.

To a 1925 (99 years ago) military force, the Diego Garcia airfield would have had zero importance.

> The lease expires in 2123. The militarily strategic landscape then is pretty much unknowable.

I bet that's what the UK thought about Hong Kong in the late 1800s, but when 1996 rolled around I think they (and many HKers) would have liked a longer-and-99-years lease.

While geography isn't quite destiny, it is fairly important, and having a random rock in a place where there are no other rocks will always be useful IMHO (unless we perhaps develop teleportation).

in 99 years, most of the island probably will be underwater due to climate change.
Further information on 13,000 islands: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2...

"Of over 13,000 islands examined, approximately 12% experienced significant shifts in shoreline positions. The total shoreline length of these islands approaches 200,000 km, with 7.57% showing signs of landward erosion and 6.05% expanding seaward. Human activities, particularly reclamation and land filling, were identified as primary drivers of local shoreline transformations, while natural factors have a comparatively minor impact. "

The island is certainly in the risk zone, but I think that is also unknowable.

My guess is that by carbon sequestering and/or SO2 injection in the stratosphere, the climate change will be controllable within a few decades.

It's very likely that we're already beyond some of the tipping points, and others are very close[0]. We're basically going into the mitigation phase now by my understanding.

[0] https://www.space.com/climate-tipping-points-closer-than-rea...

I'm quite skeptical.

If we lower the CO2 levels (carbon sequestering) and cool the planet by reflecting more sunlight (SO2 injection in the stratosphere), I'm sure these alleged tipping points will be tipped back again, given some time.

It's good to be aware that doom sells, and the incentive to publish doom predictions for the money they make is very high. Of course, they can still be true...

We'll see how it goes :)

I don't get the reason for skepticism, when this is coming from scientists who've been studying the field for many years, and have been making predictions that have been coming true.

It's like an avalanche. After it starts you can't stop it or get all that snow back on the mountain; it has to get to level ground, melt (if it gets warm enough) and go through an entire cycle that takes time. So yes, things will likely tip back. After humanity either has already been wiped out or fully migrated to other planets and the earth gets the chance to reset itself.

I don't see it as doom, just something inevitable, which we helped to cause. And it's the ones that do all they can to downplay the consequences who make the money, in every instance, as acceptance would be bad for business.

> If we lower the CO2 levels (carbon sequestering

This is simply fantasy. Sequestering carbon mechanically is an energy losing process. It is also inefficient.

If we burned oil in year 2,000 at (generously) 50% efficiency, it will cost us 4X more in year 2040 to sequester it at 50% (very generous) efficiency.

On the face of it, we would need a sequestering industry that is 4X bigger than the oil industry, and it will be just losing money. Politically, it’s just not going to happen.

Natural sequestration (I.e. tree planting) is not enough by a very large margin (like over 10x)

I would assume that "given some time" outlasts the median life expectancy of humans. If it ever happeens. Like others said it's a chaotic system in many ways, not as if you can predict more than a few decades.

Given this, after "giving it some time" a lot of people would be dead as a direct consequence of it not been given enough time.

The climate is a chaotic system, not a seesaw.
> SO2 injection in the stratosphere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Piercer#Plot

We know from studying when volcanoes spew SO₂ to the stratosphere that is breaks down by itself over 1-2 years.

So if it somehow causes some unforeseen bad effect, we just have to wait a while as it goes away.

And in 299 years the climate may have changed again, as it is wont to do (and has always done).
And 65 million years ago an asteroid detonated with the power of all of the world’s nukes combined, so there is no need to worry about nuclear war.

And timespans are like that for climate too, millions of years not 299

The little ice age lasted from 1300 to 1850 [0], so 299 years is not orders of magnitudes off.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

That’s less that half a degree, barely noticeable. Climate change is predicted to be 6 degrees or thereabouts
Is that a subtle attempt to argue that climate is changing on it's own, and not by human agency? Say it if you mean it.
And in 1000 years it will be different again. What’s your point? The fact it has and will always change doesn’t change anything about what’s happening now.

We can choose to mitigate the change or make it worse for ourselves.

I wonder if they would have anticipated its value. I can anticipate a moon base would be valuable in 2123 even though it has little present value.
Considering that 99 years ago both Maldives and India were still colonised (and would remain so for decades), I'm gonna go out on a limb by saying that no, Chagos Islands weren't seen as particularly important back then.
It would have had some value as a coaling or oiling station thought
Why would the worlds superpower need that when they had India?
Q: Is there a reason for making a lease 99 years, rather than - say - 999 years?
Historically 99 years was the longest term for leases in English laws. I don't think that's incorporated in laws any more, but it has just continued as common practice.
You may be right historically, but I don't think it's common practice any more - there are quite a few "virtual freehold" leases of 999 years, and most other domestic leaseholds are 125+ years when they start. When a leashold goes below 90 years its value dips sharply.
999 years is considered a "permanent" lease [1]. 99 years is considered a "more than a lifetime lease" [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/999-year_lease [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99-year_lease

So they can renegotiate the terms of the leasing in a reasonable time span?
I am sure that if at the end of 99 years the US or the UK still really really want to retain them, they will find a way (another lease, or by force).

Mauritius is not China. Not that I am suggesting for this to happen, but what are they going to do if the UK just decides not to leave after 99 years?

They said basically the same thing about HongKong. You can’t predict political landscape in 100 years
The Chinese negotiators for Kowloon deliberately settled on 99 years. Probably because they knew they'd be lynched by the Chinese public otherwise. It was not a mistake made by the British they just couldn't get a better deal.
There are multiple islands and archipelagos in the region.

Close to Africa/ME: Maldives, Seychelles, Comoros, Mayotte

Close to SE Asia: Cocos and Christmas Island

Diego Garcia just happened to be forcibly depopulated by the British, so was a convenient choice.

  Close to Africa/ME: Maldives, Seychelles, Comoros, Mayotte
  Close to SE Asia: Cocos and Christmas Island
That's the whole point of Diego Garcia: It's not "close to" anywhere, and it's nearly in the middle of a bunch of places. That's what give it its strategic importance.
The Maldives are only ~400mi N of Diego Garcia.
So its 400mi away from another set of tiny islands which themselves are hundreds of miles from the mainland.

I'd still argue that's pretty much "not close to anywhere."

I mean, what current option is equivalent to Diego Garcia? Are any of those options realistic right now?
They're all pretty far from land and in the same general area.

If Diego Garcia were no longer an option, there would be alternatives. Especially with US levels of lease money.

That said, few of them are quite as remote as Diego Garcia. Which means not quite as easy to secretly fly RQ-180s or whatever the hell is more clandestinely based there.

I don't think geography is the challenge as much as politics. What country and populace will give up their ancestral land to a foreign military base. Would you?

Remember that the small islands don't have much land to begin with, and bases are large.

A country that's desperate for infrastructure investment and foreign reserves, because they don't have much usable land to start with?

At some point leasing away an island, so that everyone else can have a better quality of life, is an attractive tradeoff.