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by BobAliceInATree 624 days ago
in 99 years, most of the island probably will be underwater due to climate change.
3 comments

Further information on 13,000 islands: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2...

"Of over 13,000 islands examined, approximately 12% experienced significant shifts in shoreline positions. The total shoreline length of these islands approaches 200,000 km, with 7.57% showing signs of landward erosion and 6.05% expanding seaward. Human activities, particularly reclamation and land filling, were identified as primary drivers of local shoreline transformations, while natural factors have a comparatively minor impact. "

The island is certainly in the risk zone, but I think that is also unknowable.

My guess is that by carbon sequestering and/or SO2 injection in the stratosphere, the climate change will be controllable within a few decades.

It's very likely that we're already beyond some of the tipping points, and others are very close[0]. We're basically going into the mitigation phase now by my understanding.

[0] https://www.space.com/climate-tipping-points-closer-than-rea...

I'm quite skeptical.

If we lower the CO2 levels (carbon sequestering) and cool the planet by reflecting more sunlight (SO2 injection in the stratosphere), I'm sure these alleged tipping points will be tipped back again, given some time.

It's good to be aware that doom sells, and the incentive to publish doom predictions for the money they make is very high. Of course, they can still be true...

We'll see how it goes :)

I don't get the reason for skepticism, when this is coming from scientists who've been studying the field for many years, and have been making predictions that have been coming true.

It's like an avalanche. After it starts you can't stop it or get all that snow back on the mountain; it has to get to level ground, melt (if it gets warm enough) and go through an entire cycle that takes time. So yes, things will likely tip back. After humanity either has already been wiped out or fully migrated to other planets and the earth gets the chance to reset itself.

I don't see it as doom, just something inevitable, which we helped to cause. And it's the ones that do all they can to downplay the consequences who make the money, in every instance, as acceptance would be bad for business.

Well, look at this section:

> Climate tipping points — the "points of no return" past which key components of Earth's climate will begin to irreversibly break down — could be triggered by much lower temperatures than scientists previously thought, with some tipping points potentially already reached. There are also many more potential tipping points than scientists previously identified, according to a new study.

I count to 3 maybes only there:

1. tipping points "could be triggered by much lower temperatures" 2. "some tipping points potentially already reached" 3. "according to a new study"

Number 1 and 2 says that this may possibly happen, not that it will!

Number 3 is the worst. Many - probably most - new studies with unexpected results turn out to be wrong, as the Replication Crisis has painfully taught us. They also get the most press, because "new study confirms what we thought" stories don't go viral.

> it's the ones that do all they can to downplay the consequences who make the money

That's absolutely not true in science or publishing. The most sensational results get the most attention and grants and ad dollars.

> So yes, things will likely tip back. After humanity either has already been wiped out or fully migrated to other planets and the earth gets the chance to reset itself.

Humanity would be better off living at the bottom of the ocean than on any other planet; and to think that climate change could make earth less hospitable than any other planet is just absurd. So this is an incredibly naive statement.

Yes agreed. There is no chance that humans are completely wiped out. We, or our ancestors, by definition have survived until today though multiple actual ice ages. We've survived though massive floods and glaciers and who knows what else.

On top of that, the closer we get to doomsday the more people will care.

I don't know where I heard it, but there's a saying that "capitalism can solve anything it just waits until the last minute".

That when the time comes enough money and resources will be poured into the solutions(s) that we can fix it.

When is that time? When profits are threatened and our continued way of existence.

> If we lower the CO2 levels (carbon sequestering

This is simply fantasy. Sequestering carbon mechanically is an energy losing process. It is also inefficient.

If we burned oil in year 2,000 at (generously) 50% efficiency, it will cost us 4X more in year 2040 to sequester it at 50% (very generous) efficiency.

On the face of it, we would need a sequestering industry that is 4X bigger than the oil industry, and it will be just losing money. Politically, it’s just not going to happen.

Natural sequestration (I.e. tree planting) is not enough by a very large margin (like over 10x)

Restoring CO₂ levels will use plenty of money and energy, however it's done. It can still be very much worth doing!

I don't believe much in tree planting, since it uses up huge areas of the planet forever.

The best way is to separate out CO2 from the atmosphere and pump it into underground cavities. This is the just reversing natural gas extraction, which means it's well established tech. Aside from the separating CO2 part, but that's being worked on.

In a decade or three I expect solar powered machines like this slowly but surely turning the atmosphere back to normal.

I would assume that "given some time" outlasts the median life expectancy of humans. If it ever happeens. Like others said it's a chaotic system in many ways, not as if you can predict more than a few decades.

Given this, after "giving it some time" a lot of people would be dead as a direct consequence of it not been given enough time.

we're talking about 99 years, so outside the life expectancy of a lot of people on this thread
The climate is a chaotic system, not a seesaw.
> SO2 injection in the stratosphere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Piercer#Plot

We know from studying when volcanoes spew SO₂ to the stratosphere that is breaks down by itself over 1-2 years.

So if it somehow causes some unforeseen bad effect, we just have to wait a while as it goes away.

And in 299 years the climate may have changed again, as it is wont to do (and has always done).
And 65 million years ago an asteroid detonated with the power of all of the world’s nukes combined, so there is no need to worry about nuclear war.

And timespans are like that for climate too, millions of years not 299

The little ice age lasted from 1300 to 1850 [0], so 299 years is not orders of magnitudes off.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

That’s less that half a degree, barely noticeable. Climate change is predicted to be 6 degrees or thereabouts
Wow I predict things too, they don't always come true. Remind me when we go up 6 degrees and i'll care.
Is that a subtle attempt to argue that climate is changing on it's own, and not by human agency? Say it if you mean it.
And in 1000 years it will be different again. What’s your point? The fact it has and will always change doesn’t change anything about what’s happening now.

We can choose to mitigate the change or make it worse for ourselves.