[ok_dad]

Yes, the powers that be have ignored the issue of nuclear materials sitting on site at power plants for decades, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to make 5 or 10 times more of the stuff at other sites and trust that the actual knowledgeable experts, who haven’t done shit for decades, will figure out a solution by the time it’s bigger issue.

We should decrease our power usage as a whole planet, and reduce dependence on technology that has outsized biological risks, like nuclear and plastics, rather than rushing into some future that will only enrich the already wealthy.

[alwa]

Why? Using power meaningfully improves people’s lives, and many billions of people are still on the end of the spectrum where “improving lives” involves improvements like “not starving” and “having safe water”.

The benefits of making power available are extremely (!) robust and well-understood, as are the health and safety benefits of switching from combustion-based power to non-combustion-based power.

I have yet to hear skeptics raise specific nuclear concerns that are real, consequential, and also unmanaged. For all its cost and red tape, the past 60 years’ regulatory posture of “you must identify and mitigate every risk to the absolute maximum degree physically possible, damn the cost” seems to have resulted in a system where, well… they have.

[ok_dad]

Using power meaningfully, sure, but Bitcoin and AI are not meaningful. Using power to make steel or to use tools to make lives easier IS meaningful.

Red tape in nuclear is there for a reason. I don’t trust anyone to do nuclear without tons of red tape. The only reason it’s safe is the red tape. Take red tape away from industries that aren’t inherently unsafe, fine, but not nuclear power.

[pfdietz]

We should greatly increase our power usage as a whole planet, to improve the quality of life for humanity. Much of humanity is energy starved.

[ok_dad]

Don’t go talking about “humanity” needing power, all of the power being built is so the developed countries can write books with LLMs and other stupid shit.

Humanity might need more power some places, but it’s uneven and that probably won’t change. Your argument is moral and right, but the capitalists that choose where power go will continue to put power plants next to where their interests lie.

Developed nations need to reduce power usage so that others who are poor may have power. That is my stance, I don’t care how unpopular.

[pfdietz]

I want you to consider how much energy would be needed to bring the rest of the world up to a US, or even European, standard of living. This would utterly dwarf energy going into LLMs.

You seem to have this silly idea that LLMs are consuming huge amounts of energy.

[ok_dad]

The USA wastes so much power! I’m saying we need to use less and bring everyone up to THAT standard, but today every bit of energy added is going to be used for useless bullshit.

You’re simply avoiding my main point, where additional power isn’t going towards helping under developed countries, by trying to appeal to how great the poor downtrodden masses have it without power.

Why aren’t we building renewable power plants in rural poor areas all over the world if that’s the goal? Because it ISN’T; the wealthy capitalists simply want to expend energy and build new plants near developed areas to make themselves wealthier!

[pfdietz]

I'm pointing out that a plan to greatly limit world energy consumption is necessarily horrible, since it condemns most of the world to energy poverty.

You seem to be evading this simple mathematical point.

Renewables are being installed widely around the world. This is how much of the world will be lifted out of energy poverty.

I think some of the opposition to the idea of a renewable powered world comes from some of those who realize, at some level, that this relatively disadvantages the higher latitude white countries.