[Ukv]

> No, the question is whether those genAI we have around are mass copyrights violation machines or whether they "learn" and build non-violating work.

I refer to the training process in question, which may or may not be be violating copyright, as "machine learning" since that's the common terminology. Question is whether that process is covered by fair use. Whether or not it actually "learn"s is not irrelevant, but I'd say more a philosophical framing than a legal one.

[marcosdumay]

> I refer to the training process in question

Yeah, you go for the red herring.

All of the worthwhile debate is about the real violations. But the public discourse is surely inundated with that exact red herring.

[Ukv]

I addressed model output (infringes copyright if substantially similar, as with manually-created works) and the process of training the model (requires collating/processing ephemeral copies, possibly fair use). What do you think the "real violations" are, if not those?