[Dalewyn]

Outside of very specific niches like trade deficits, job and industry losses (moved to China), and geopolitical saber rattling, I feel the sentiment of the average man is actually very pro-China thanks to how much sheer money China pours into soft power.

I recommend seeing what China has its monies in, because they are in fucking everything today.

As an example, China has their monies in like 80~90%+ of the global video game market through Tencent, and video games are one of the heralds of pop culture and thus influence today. More critically, China has a growing stranglehold on the next generation of global payment processors through Alipay and WeChat Pay among others.

Also, perhaps ironically: This entire thread with numerous pro-China/anti-US/anti-west sentiments.

To put this in Civilization terms, China is going for an Econo-Cultural Victory and I daresay it's working.

[pragmomm]

> average man is actually very pro-China

survey would say otherwise: For the fifth year in a row, about eight-in-ten Americans report an unfavorable view of China https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/01/americans-rema...

In the 18 high-income countries we polled, views of China are, on balance, negative. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/07/09/views-of-china...

[fragmede]

Sure, but how many Americans have TikTok or Temu installed?

[glimshe]

It's a free country. We can have a negative view of China while still doing business with them.

[Dalewyn]

I would take surveys with a large serving of salt. By their own admission, the American survey only concerned a selection of 3,600 by phone call, and those who refused to answer are not counted in the results. That's not going to create a reasonable representation, because for starters most people these days fucking hate junk calls.

Also of note in that survey is that the anti-China sentiment is heavily biased towards older conservatives. That means the current and coming younger, more progressive generations are more pro-China, relatively speaking.

This is China's investment into soft power blossoming in spades.

As for the country survey, have a closer look at that breakdown: The west, to include Japan and South Korea, are anti-China as a collective. Most of the rest of the world is at worst neutral and at best pro-China; South and Central America is almost entirely pro-China including Mexico, the US's immediate neighbour to the south.

Also, despite Indians' claimed anti-Chinese sentiment, India is also one of, if not the, China's biggest strategic ally if not necessarily a friend.

Again, China's investment into soft power blossoming in spades.

While the efficacy of American anti-Chinese propaganda is certainly debatable, it's clear the US and the west at large are losing the econo-cultural fight and need to respond somehow.

[wegfawefgawefg]

I grew up in a very international diverse environment, but I cant name a single popular movie, song, or other media that I knew is from China, other than the meme where John Cena is eating icecream. I suspect this is the same for over 95% of Americans.

What soft power are you referring to exactly?

[Dalewyn]

The soft power that had many (most?) young Americans screaming at the government for banning Tiktok.

The soft power that catapulted Genshin Impact to the top of sales rankings across the entire world.[1]

The soft power that led to China's incomprehensibly deep and wide spider web of financial influence.[2]

The soft power that has us wearing Chinese blue jeans, to use Civilization lingo.

If the west thinks this is a problem (and it probably is, at least I think it is) then we need to respond. Being in denial won't address anything.

[1]: https://sensortower.com/blog/genshin-impact-three-billion-re...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent#Foreign_studio_assets

[wegfawefgawefg]

Excluding cultural icons, as I understand the definition, these are not examples of soft power. These are just power.

Nobody here is denying china has an economic strength but that has nothing to do with soft power. Soft power has to do with cultural export, and china has none. Zero. Nothing.

I am not in denial. Nobody outside of china gives a rats ass about chinese music or movies, or chinese blue jeans. They just know about the great wall, and about how horrible the government is.. Everyone thinks genshin is japanese, and loves japanese denim.

And you cant just flag comments that you disagree with to make them dissapear. That might fly in china but thats not how civilized nations operate. The reason I accused you of being a wumao is because of the way you behave. Not because I am in denial. I am a native born american citizen. Never met anybody who knows a damn thing about chinese cultural exports. that is because there arent any.

[xenospn]

China can not achieve a cultural victory. They are exporting their form of government, but Chinese culture is still a mystery in the west to this day, unlike, say, Japan or Korea. Can you name one Chinese pop star or movie star? Other than the Hong Kong ones, I can’t.

[Dalewyn]

I think you've missed the Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail craze, those two Chinese games took the global video game market by storm.

I'm not going to mention the smaller hits like Arknights and Azur Lane and many more.

Japanese and Korean pop culture are yesterday's news, Chinese pop culture is the current trend. And note, I say that very begrudgingly as a Japanese; even in Japan now the Chinese games are more popular than homegrown Japanese games.

[solardev]

That monkey god game (Wukong something) also just came out this month and it's become one of Steam's most played games ever.

And of course Tencent also owns part of Path of Exile, Epic Games, Discord, Roblox, etc.

China used to own AMC Theaters too, and still owns some Hollywood studios like Legendary (Batman, The Hangover, Pacific Rim, Interstellar, etc.) through the Wanda conglomerate.

While we're talking about pop culture, China is just quietly buying up America piece by piece...

[wegfawefgawefg]

Buying things isnt soft power. The discussion was about soft power. Owning things is not soft power. He is referring to cultural exports. And there are not any.

[jajko]

How are they exporting their form of government? I guess you meant talking to dictators and democracies alike, which also EU or US is doing.

Just look at extremely friendly unwavering long term support for say Saudi arabia, from where all 9/11 attackers and whole extreme wahhabism came from. Say Mohamed bin Salman is proven vicious psychotic murderer yet ie Trump admires him, and no western democracy refuses saudi oil.